Archive for bumrejects.myfreeforum.org Open discussion on just about any topic
 

The free forums are now under new ownership, a full announcement will be made shortly

       bumrejects.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> Don't touch my Junk Drawer
puc reducks

IMAGINATION and MEMORY: Are They One in the Same?

Imagination and memory:  Are they one in the same? Or something else altogether?  How does one tell the difference?  Are there known, reliable hallmarks?  Is this ALL an illusion?  Yes. No. None of the above.  All of the above.

I've long believed in reincarnation.  Began when I was 8--and playing with matches and candles in my room.  I lit a candle and stared into the flame.  I became mesmerized, in sort of a staring trance.  In the flame were three profiles, in this order, back to front:

1- an old, wrinkled copper-skinned man with long, stringy black hair,

2- a young man with dark hair and long curls at his sideburns, he also wore a black hat,

3- an old woman w/a doughy face, puffy red cheeks, raisins for eyes, she was grinning, toothless, and she wore a head scarf of brightly colored flowers.

I recorded as many details of this event as I could--in a notebook I kept between my mattress and boxspring. Upon reading it, my mother began to call me "her odd child."  It never occurred to me that she'd change the sheets and find my notebook!

This instant, I can recall the exact images as I saw them at 8 yrs old. In my room, etc.

Over time I have come to believe these were people I had been in previous lives.  Not all, just these three.

1- was a prehistoric Indian, a shaman, whom I met in spirit on Spotted Mountain in Arizona when I was 30,

2- was a rabbinical student (I know I've been Jewish many times in previous lives) who died in a concentration camp,

and 3- was a Russian peasant grandmother, poor in material things, but riches untold from the love of her family.


So, I go along, living my life, experiencing the "paranormal" throughout, always being led to this or that.

Last year, I decided to give past-life regression (PLR) a shot and contacted a woman who specialized in same.  Guess what?  I could not be regressed!

I haven't tried PLR again, but have tried other types of hypnosis, expecting that I simply cannot be hypnotized.  Wrong.  Apparently, I am highly suggestible!  LOL at self.

This brought back to mind a question I have wondered about, researched, asked psychiatrists, medical doctors, therapists, New Age practitioners, ministers (no, NO priests), spiritualists, hard scientists, the giftedly intuitive, the existentials, the misanthropes, the dying, the depressed, the emotionally healthy--you name them, it's very likely I've asked.

Is there a difference between what we imagine and what our memory is?  When we recall past lives, is that imagination or memory? Or something else?  Can it even be labeled?  Most of me just accepts that this is so.  It is at the core of my belief system.  But a small part still wonders...

I'm not looking for an answer such as, "Oh, that's Freudian, Jungian, Lacanian...", etc.  But something else.  ???
bieramar

Re: IMAGINATION and MEMORY: Are They One in the Same?

puc reducks wrote:
Imagination and memory:  Are they one in the same?

Or something else altogether?  

How does one tell the difference?  

Are there known, reliable hallmarks?  

Is this ALL an illusion?  Yes. No. None of the above.  All of the above.

<snip>

 I could not be regressed!

<snip>

Is there a difference between what we imagine and what our memory is?

When we recall past lives, is that imagination or memory?
Or something else?  
Can it even be labeled?


Treating the first as rhetorical, leaving the second as something you might benefit from deep contemplation upon (not meditation, but contemplation), I'll respond to the third section.

Just as one can not ask a question to which the answer is not at some level of consciousness, so it is impossible to imagine what we don't remember at some level of consciousness.

Unfortunately there are two huge barriers to simply and accurately accessing our memories at the conscious, semi-conscious, unconscious, suppressed and repressed levels of our minds and brains.

We can access "false" memories, and thus false imaginings.  

(Metaphorically) we can be short-circuited into another's memory/imagination - lots of theories and hypotheses to explain this shortcircuiting - but for the purpose of this post, it suffices that we can NOT absolutely trust either our imaginings or memories without independently verifiable supporting evidence.  

The second barrier is that our memories of past life experiences can extend across many lives; including being confused with this current one.

Recalling past lives is both memory and imagination - and something else too!  

The something else is the sixth (or seventh, or eighth etc.) sense of experiencing the mutability of space and time and/or experiencing the simultaneous alternate space/times (a/k/a quantum physics).  

Our "memory" may not be of a life in time past, but rather a connection with a currently ongoing alternate life, e.g., the life that continues in a different space/time when we make a major life change decision. Instead of marrying x one marries y, and both lives continue in separate space/times - with only glimpses across the lines.

Speaking of the paranormal, extranormal and mystical necessarily means using words and concepts metaphorically and analogously; and using labels.  But we need always to remember that the labels do not reflect intrinscic realities, they are only tools to attempt to communicate understanding.
jasmine

I believe in reincarnation and absolutely do think we have past lives.  There are too many times my instincts have told me I have been there before.  I do't think it is memory or imagination, it is something else.  When I first stepped on a sailboat I took the wheel and sailed like I had been doing it all my life.  It was total instinct.  I bought a house after being in it about 10 minutes because I felt as if I belonged in that house.  My husband of course, had to have everything checked out, before we bought the house, but, I instinctively knew this was the house we were going to own.  We had a realtor who was supposed to negotiate, but when I heard the price, I said the owner is not going to negotiate and this is the price he wants and that's what we are paying.  Sure enough, he wasn't going to budge on the price because he listed it without wiggle room.  He didn't believe in playing that game.  My husband and realtor thought I knew the guy and had already talked to him, but I hadn't -I had already known this.  

Things like that have happened and I can't explain at all.
puc reducks

My prayer is contemplative, Bier.  I have been doing that for decades.   Smile

My quasi- and temporary (because they are always changing, in flux) conclusion is pretty much what you have written in your final paragraph:

"Speaking of the paranormal, extranormal and mystical necessarily means using words and concepts metaphorically and analogously; and using labels.  But we need always to remember that the labels do not reflect intrinscic realities, they are only tools to attempt to communicate understanding."

That is, we (I, at the very least) do not have the words/labels to address or solve my question. (Even if I chose to visualize!  Wink )  Perhaps with the benefit of additional lifetimes. Perhaps not.  Or deeper levels...

One thing is noticed in your reply is that you did NOT say "subconscious."  Now THAT is a subject!  Who/what is running the subconscious?

Anyhow, I am in agreement with what you wrote--and have come to similar conclusions--esp. the mutability of time and space. I have experienced that.

I take it you think imagingings spring from memory.  I cannot even begin to consider that these are "chicken and egg"!  

Thanks for your response!
Mac IX

2 entirely different and independent processes, Puc.  (Sorry about you hand)

Imagination can create anything, anywhere, with anyone (Want to do it again?) is imagination.  Your recolection (or lack thereof) of the first time is memory.
tsiya

Y'all need to be careful with those bath salts!
puc reducks

tsiya wrote:
Y'all need to be careful with those bath salts!



Pbbbbbfffffttttt!!!!!     Laughing
coebul

How's the hand?
puc reducks

Very improved! Thank you for asking!   Very Happy  The 1,000 mg of Cipro Extended Release and silver ointment did it.  Of course, I have no fingerprints or a palm print on that hand...

Seriously, I turned The Corner!  No wound, no bacteria, no nuthin'!
jasmine

puc reducks wrote:
Very improved! Thank you for asking!   Very Happy  The 1,000 mg of Cipro Extended Release and silver ointment did it.  Of course, I have no fingerprints or a palm print on that hand...

Seriously, I turned The Corner!  No wound, no bacteria, no nuthin'!


Sounds serious, what in the world did you do?
puc reducks

jasmine wrote:
puc reducks wrote:
Very improved! Thank you for asking!   Very Happy  The 1,000 mg of Cipro Extended Release and silver ointment did it.  Of course, I have no fingerprints or a palm print on that hand...

Seriously, I turned The Corner!  No wound, no bacteria, no nuthin'!


Sounds serious, what in the world did you do?


Roasted sauerkraut in stainless steel All-Clad skillet in a 400 degree oven.

Removed skillet from oven, using mitt.

Handle was sticking out over top to stove, so real quick like, grabbed with mittless left hand to push it back (have a jumping dog who likes to investigate cooking).... OMG. Did quite the number.

Almost ambidextrous!  Laughing
jasmine

puc reducks wrote:
jasmine wrote:
puc reducks wrote:
Very improved! Thank you for asking!   Very Happy  The 1,000 mg of Cipro Extended Release and silver ointment did it.  Of course, I have no fingerprints or a palm print on that hand...

Seriously, I turned The Corner!  No wound, no bacteria, no nuthin'!


Sounds serious, what in the world did you do?


Roasted sauerkraut in stainless steel All-Clad skillet in a 400 degree oven.

Removed skillet from oven, using mitt.

Handle was sticking out over top to stove, so real quick like, grabbed with mittless left hand to push it back (have a jumping dog who likes to investigate cooking).... OMG. Did quite the number.

Almost ambidextrous!  Laughing


Ouch or should I say Ohhhhhhhhhhhh Shitttttttttttttt, that hurt.
bieramar

Mental processing

coebul wrote:
[On another thread] I believe myself.  My opinions are seldom influenced by polls.


Questions to all:

What influences your opinion?

What forms your opinion initially?

If you believe yourself, when you change your opinion, how do you consider your earlier held belief?
-- it was wrong?
-- it was ignorant?
-- it was true for me then?
-- or?

HOW we think and form opinions and beliefs is very much related to memory and imagination, so I'm posting on this thread.
coebul

Re: Mental processing

bieramar wrote:
coebul wrote:
[On another thread] I believe myself.  My opinions are seldom influenced by polls.


Questions to all:

What influences your opinion?

What forms your opinion initially?

If you believe yourself, when you change your opinion, how do you consider your earlier held belief?
-- it was wrong?
-- it was ignorant?
-- it was true for me then?
-- or?

HOW we think and form opinions and beliefs is very much related to memory and imagination, so I'm posting on this thread.
Fair question.

Let me begin by describing how I pick an issue in the first place.  Say for this forum.  

I hear something on the news (always in the background) then I question it's factual standing via minimal research.  Take the current slime ball in the news Weiner.  

I was listening to his denials and almost immediately decided he was not telling the truth.  No commentary needed.  But was this a simple indiscretion or was he in serious doodoo?  Then I begin with a few web searches, websites, papers, learning about the guy.....  Then as the story develops and do more follow up.  All the time I am forming an opinion based on me.  Would I do this?  Have I done this (or similar)? Is this an honor issue?  You have to understand it is my absolute belief that with out honor we as a culture and personally a waste of space.  

I have taught my children from the very beginning honesty and honor go hand and hand.  

I have a very strong sense of right and wrong and will not compromise on this.  

Back to Weiner.  He did the deed.  He (I assume) lied about it to his wife, to his caucus, to his party and to the people.  While not illegal, he has dishonored himself, his wife, his caucus and his party.  He should resign.  

This is not to bring up another discussion about Weiner.  You asked how I form an opinion?  This is how I try to learn about the issue and then apply it to my own moral/ethical code.  

Some time it is a snap decision and only cursory research is needed some time the opinion grows and changes and forms as information becomes available.

Take the war in Iraq or Afghanistan.  I supported and still do Afghanistan.  Initially I supported Iraq.  First I believed the administration about WMDs. Second he went to Congress and they almost unanimously supported the invasion.  Thirdly I believed Colon Powell I have always trusted him.  

As the war developed I realized what a mistake it had become.  You want to slap the country around so be it but toppling the regime????  

Over the last 10 years my opinion has changed, melded, developed.  I have watched the errors compound.  I have watched the results of the vacuum created by the toppling of the Saddam regime.  

Don't get me wrong there are few in the world that deserved dying more then Saddam.  But there are unintended consequences for every action.  The vacuum created by the collapse of the Saddam regime has created a bigger even greater monster in the region.  

So I guess the best way to describe my opinion process is hear/see, research, think, decide.  

Best answer at the moment.  I will have to think on it a bit more.....Wink
puc reducks

Re: Mental processing

bieramar wrote:
coebul wrote:
[On another thread] I believe myself.  My opinions are seldom influenced by polls.


Questions to all:

What influences your opinion?

Research. Thinking.  Discussing.  Thinking.  Research.
~~~~~

What forms your opinion initially?

My past.  Life.  Experience.  Knowledge base.

~~~~~

If you believe yourself, when you change your opinion, how do you consider your earlier held belief?
-- it was wrong?
-- it was ignorant?
-- it was true for me then?
-- or?

All of the above.  I can always learn more.  There is no excuse for being ignorant (get help in whatever way it comes: research, discussion, etc.).  I try to be open-minded, to understand (truly) what is true for me and others; by the same token, I evolve in my opinions and am not averse to changing my opinion. I dislike the idea of remaining static.  I want to learn and grow.
~~~~~

HOW we think and form opinions and beliefs is very much related to memory and imagination, so I'm posting on this thread.

       bumrejects.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> Don't touch my Junk Drawer
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum