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scrutney

tea party vs. bryan

from the st. augustine record:

Political rhetoric sparks County Auditorium scuffle

By PETER GUINTA

Shouting, a perceived racial slur and a slight physical confrontation involving a St. Johns County commissioner and a Tea Party leader ended an already prickly Town Hall budget meeting Monday on an unpleasant note.

County Administrator Michael Wanchick had just finished explaining the county's budget woes -- essentially caused by falling property values -- and spent more than an hour answering questions when a disturbance began near the back of the room.

Commission Chair Ken Bryan and his wife, Lauren, were watching county residents respond to Wanchick's stated intention to recommend a .75 mill property tax increase in September that would help close the county's $4 million budget gap.

"Behind me (Cindy Falco-DiCorrado) was disruptive and accusatory, talking about the Constitution," Bryan said Tuesday. "Then she slapped some kind of document down next to me, and I said, 'Take your documents away from here. I don't want them.' She said, 'You people are the reason we're having all this trouble now.'"

Lauren Bryan then stood up and said, "What do you mean, 'You people'?"

That phrase has a long history of being offensive to blacks and minorities, Bryan said.

But Falco-DiCorrado said she'd only said, "We the people," a common Tea Party slogan, and told Bryan and his wife, "Don't you even try to make this a racial issue."

Eric West, president of the St. Johns County Tea Party, said he didn't know what was happening until he heard the copy of the Constitution hit the floor.

"Then I knew exactly what it was," West said. "He stood up and started yelling. I couldn't believe a county commissioner would act like that to a voter."

Bryan remembers thinking that the situation had become ugly.

"I stood up and said, 'Hold on. This has gone too far,'" he said.

West then moved quickly over to the disturbance, later saying he was trying to calm everyone.

But Bryan said West "got in my face, saying over and over again, 'What are you going to do about it?' He said it about 15 times. I asked him, 'What do you have to do with this?' He was trying to provoke me into hitting him."

West, however, said Bryan got in his face and was shouting.

West said. "I was just dumbfounded. I reached out to touch his arm (to make a human connection) and he karate-chopped my arm and said, 'Don't touch me!' The cops then dragged me out, saying that touching a commissioner is committing assault.

"One deputy was rude beyond belief. They took my name and asked for my driver's license. I said, 'He hit me!' It was a surreal situation."

Other witnesses said West had come up to Bryan obliquely and just touched the commissioner's elbow, speculating that Bryan might have believed he was being grabbed from behind.

St. Johns County Sheriff's Col. Art May, in plainclothes as were three other deputies, tried to calm the situation, Bryan said.

"I went back to my seat and listened to the discussion," Bryan said. "I took the microphone and apologized to the audience, saying I was sorry for the altercation. I said, 'You can do what you want to me, but don't accost my wife.'"

West was not charged.

Both men said no other blows were struck other than the one at West's arm.

Bryan believes the Tea Party is gunning for him.

When asked if that were true, local Republican Party officials did not deny that the District 5 commission seat would a target in 2012.

Bryan said a Tea Party member was seen capturing the incident on his camera phone.

"It was a setup," Bryan said.

Tea Party members said Tuesday night that they have both stills and video of the incident.

Bryan has asked several witnesses to fill out affidavits "in order to get a true accounting of what occurred to take it to the Sheriff's Office."

West said that he was told that, if no charges were filed within 24 hours, none would be.

"He kept telling me that I had no right to be here. That didn't make sense," West said.

The questioning "couldn't have been more respectful," he said. "There were 20 people against the tax increase and six for it. For the first time, someone's actually watching what the County Commission is doing. They don't like that."

But Bryan believes the Tea Party doesn't care what the facts are because it has its own agenda.

"We're the first county commission coming before the public and asking, 'What do you want for your tax dollar?' Instead of that being appreciated, we're getting attacked," he said.
bieramar

If that scene would have been most anywhere else it would be on Facebook or U-Tube inside half an hour (having typed that, maybe I should have looked first?).

The funniest comment in the article:
"I was just dumbfounded. I reached out to touch his arm (to make a human connection) and he karate-chopped my arm and said, 'Don't touch me!' The cops then dragged me out, saying that touching a commissioner is committing assault. One deputy was rude beyond belief. They took my name and asked for my driver's license."

Reaching out to make a human connection at such a highly charged event? Karate chopped?  ROFLMAO  

I wonder whose parenthetical that is - the West's or Guinta's?
puc reducks

My guess as to who contributed the parenthetical comment inside a direct quote:  Guinta.  Really cannot tell, however.

Apparently, "those people"--The Tea Partiers--have been haranguing County meetings for a while--escalating, escalating, escalating the way zealots will.

Just surprised this is the first article.
scrutney

if you read the online comments in wackyland (aka the record)...there is no doubt (remember, it's wackyland) who was behind the assault.

i neither know nor care whose fault it was...but both explanations sound a little too pat...as a matter of fact/opinion, they both sound like bs to me.

but of course that's one man's opinion.

here's a link to the on line comments...they're priceless:

wackyland

edited to add:

pix from historic city

god...i love a good donnybrook.
jasmine

Re: tea party vs. bryan

scrutney wrote:
from the st. augustine record:

Political rhetoric sparks County Auditorium scuffle

By PETER GUINTA

Shouting, a perceived racial slur and a slight physical confrontation involving a St. Johns County commissioner and a Tea Party leader ended an already prickly Town Hall budget meeting Monday on an unpleasant note.

County Administrator Michael Wanchick had just finished explaining the county's budget woes -- essentially caused by falling property values -- and spent more than an hour answering questions when a disturbance began near the back of the room.

Commission Chair Ken Bryan and his wife, Lauren, were watching county residents respond to Wanchick's stated intention to recommend a .75 mill property tax increase in September that would help close the county's $4 million budget gap.

"Behind me (Cindy Falco-DiCorrado) was disruptive and accusatory, talking about the Constitution," Bryan said Tuesday. "Then she slapped some kind of document down next to me, and I said, 'Take your documents away from here. I don't want them.' She said, 'You people are the reason we're having all this trouble now.'"

Lauren Bryan then stood up and said, "What do you mean, 'You people'?"

That phrase has a long history of being offensive to blacks and minorities, Bryan said.

But Falco-DiCorrado said she'd only said, "We the people," a common Tea Party slogan, and told Bryan and his wife, "Don't you even try to make this a racial issue."

Eric West, president of the St. Johns County Tea Party, said he didn't know what was happening until he heard the copy of the Constitution hit the floor.

"Then I knew exactly what it was," West said. "He stood up and started yelling. I couldn't believe a county commissioner would act like that to a voter."

Bryan remembers thinking that the situation had become ugly.

"I stood up and said, 'Hold on. This has gone too far,'" he said.

West then moved quickly over to the disturbance, later saying he was trying to calm everyone.

But Bryan said West "got in my face, saying over and over again, 'What are you going to do about it?' He said it about 15 times. I asked him, 'What do you have to do with this?' He was trying to provoke me into hitting him."

West, however, said Bryan got in his face and was shouting.

West said. "I was just dumbfounded. I reached out to touch his arm (to make a human connection) and he karate-chopped my arm and said, 'Don't touch me!' The cops then dragged me out, saying that touching a commissioner is committing assault.

"One deputy was rude beyond belief. They took my name and asked for my driver's license. I said, 'He hit me!' It was a surreal situation."

Other witnesses said West had come up to Bryan obliquely and just touched the commissioner's elbow, speculating that Bryan might have believed he was being grabbed from behind.

St. Johns County Sheriff's Col. Art May, in plainclothes as were three other deputies, tried to calm the situation, Bryan said.

"I went back to my seat and listened to the discussion," Bryan said. "I took the microphone and apologized to the audience, saying I was sorry for the altercation. I said, 'You can do what you want to me, but don't accost my wife.'"

West was not charged.

Both men said no other blows were struck other than the one at West's arm.

Bryan believes the Tea Party is gunning for him.

When asked if that were true, local Republican Party officials did not deny that the District 5 commission seat would a target in 2012.

Bryan said a Tea Party member was seen capturing the incident on his camera phone.

"It was a setup," Bryan said.

Tea Party members said Tuesday night that they have both stills and video of the incident.

Bryan has asked several witnesses to fill out affidavits "in order to get a true accounting of what occurred to take it to the Sheriff's Office."

West said that he was told that, if no charges were filed within 24 hours, none would be.

"He kept telling me that I had no right to be here. That didn't make sense," West said.

The questioning "couldn't have been more respectful," he said. "There were 20 people against the tax increase and six for it. For the first time, someone's actually watching what the County Commission is doing. They don't like that."

But Bryan believes the Tea Party doesn't care what the facts are because it has its own agenda.

"We're the first county commission coming before the public and asking, 'What do you want for your tax dollar?' Instead of that being appreciated, we're getting attacked," he said.


St Johns County tax dollars at work, just a bunch of good ole boys.
puc reducks

Scrutney wrote:

here's a link to the on line comments...they're priceless:

wackyland

edited to add:

pix from historic city

god...i love a good donnybrook.



Wackyland don't even begin to cover the 54 (count at the time I logged in) comments.  These folks live amonst us, drive, breed, and vote.

I'm going back into my cave. Not comin' out ever again, no way and now how.  No sir.  Until elections for the county occur, including the sheriff.
auntmartymoo

puc reducks wrote:
Apparently, "those people"--The Tea Partiers--have been haranguing County meetings for a while--escalating, escalating, escalating the way zealots will.


haha      I guess it depends on your perspective.  


There have always been lunatics haranguing county commission meetings.

A few of those lunatics now occupy seats on the board.
jasmine

auntmartymoo wrote:
puc reducks wrote:
Apparently, "those people"--The Tea Partiers--have been haranguing County meetings for a while--escalating, escalating, escalating the way zealots will.


haha      I guess it depends on your perspective.  


There have always been lunatics haranguing county commission meetings.

A few of those lunatics now occupy seats on the board.


Boy ain't that the truth.
puc reducks

auntmartymoo wrote:
puc reducks wrote:
Apparently, "those people"--The Tea Partiers--have been haranguing County meetings for a while--escalating, escalating, escalating the way zealots will.


haha      I guess it depends on your perspective.  


There have always been lunatics haranguing county commission meetings.

A few of those lunatics now occupy seats on the board.


No argument there.
bieramar

Today's St. Augustine Record
editorial, with which I agree 100%, is here: http://staugustine.com/opinions/2...iew-dont-sideline-public-meetings

Also many Talkback Comments which point out what I've also been questioning;
Where are the unedited video tapes? Should have been on YouTube a long time ago?

Maybe they don't incriminate the person(s) the good ole boys and girls want to blame?
scrutney

bieramar wrote:
Where are the unedited video tapes?


say it with me:

where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes?

bieramar

Maybe the transcriber's finger or foot slipped and something got erased?  I've heard that story before!
mike

auntmartymoo wrote:
A few of those lunatics now occupy seats on the board.

You mean like Ben Rich?  Or he's not there, well, not yet.
jasmine

scrutney wrote:
bieramar wrote:
Where are the unedited video tapes?


say it with me:

where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes?



What tapes?  Surprised
scrutney

from historic city news:

Bryan threatens to call Justice Department

Historic City News was on hand this morning when St. Johns County Commission Chairman threatened to report un-named individuals who he labels “wackos” to the Justice Department if he gets no cooperation from the sheriff or state attorney.

After a lengthy prologue during today’s special budget meeting, Bryan described what he calls a “movement or trend of anti-government sentiment” — citing examples of violence against local officials reported in national news articles.

“If I have to, I’ll work with the Justice Department,” Bryant said.

Bryan said he believes that this sentiment is “ratcheting up” in St. Johns County.

Bryan’s comments come on the heels of the final Town Hall meeting held by County Administrator Michael Wanchick; where Bryan got into an altercation resulting in the forced removal of two citizens. They reportedly object to a proposed increase in the millage rated used to calculate property taxes — an increase that Bryan supports.

Photographs were published by Historic City News of Lauren Spencer-Bryan, the commissioner’s wife, interceding between Bryan and the Chairman of the St. Augustine Tea Party. Bryan’s face is strained, he is angrily pointing his finger in the citizen’s face, and his wife is obviously trying to push Bryan back — placing herself between Bryan and the citizen.

Bryan says he’s worked 36 years in federal government before coming here and that it’s nothing for him to be ashamed of — without clarification, he said, “I started at the bottom and worked my way to the top.”

Turning his story to local county employees, Bryan said that they are telling him that they are “afraid or ashamed to leave the campus with their ID on.” Without citing specific local examples, Bryan claims that St. Johns County employees “are afraid they are going to get ostracized” he also claims that they “are afraid they are going to get coerced”.

Bryan says that his concern is that county employees are being “abused in some manner, either verbally or even physically.”

On hearing that allegation, Historic City News contacted St. Johns County Sheriff’s spokesman Kevin Kelshaw to determine if there have been complaints made by county employees that they had been “coerced”, “verbally or physically abused”.

Kelshaw informed us that he reads the criminal incident reports daily and that he has no recollection of any such complaints. Kelshaw, whose wife is also a county employee, said that he couldn’t be absolutely certain, however, neither he nor his wife have ever been the subject of a citizen’s abuse, and, if there ever were such a complaint filed, it would not be necessary to call in the Department of Justice because the local Sheriff’s Office would be very capable of investigating the complaint.

Sending mixed signals, Bryan remarked, “I’m not afraid of anyone, I’m not afraid of anything.” Again, without giving any specifics of any county employee being abused, Bryan claims he intends to “defend the county employees that we have.”

“You can maybe be cautious not to hang your government ID around your visor or mirror in your car because you’re afraid that it’s going to get keyed by some wacko,” Bryan warned.

The sheriff’s office has not been called to investigate any county employee whose car has been keyed, according to recent incident reports.

~In what some in the audience took to be a veiled threat; and, in a statement that has piqued the interest of some who are now questioning Bryan’s motives, the County Commission Chairman told the audience “if anyone goes over the line — there are consequences; legally or otherwise“~
bieramar

Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes? Where are the tapes?

====
Quote: "...if there ever were such a complaint filed, it would not be necessary to call in the Department of Justice because the local Sheriff's Office would be very capable of investigating the complaint." >>> Kevin Kelshaw SJCSO.

Damn, where was Kelshaw when Sheriff Shoar called in the Department of Justice to investigate, instead of assigning his own deputies, or the FDLE?

I remember a very similar Kelshaw statement in 2004 after a flurry of racist threats in St. Johns County against the "prominent" citizens who were publicly dating and/or married in interracial relationships - such threats and attacks seemed to re-occur every 4 or 5 years.  

Vehicles keyed with racial slurs, printed threatening "White Power" pamphlets on the windshields and on front doors, dog/people shit on door handles - the usual harassment thingies.

After the first complaints to SJSCO or SAPD went nowhere, people just stopped reporting the harassment.  

And when one of the alternate newspapers later inquired, they received the Kelshaw response.
scrutney

bieramar wrote:


I remember a very similar Kelshaw statement in 2004 after a flurry of racist threats in St. Johns County against the "prominent" citizens who were publicly dating and/or married in interracial relationships - such threats and attacks seemed to re-occur every 4 or 5 years.  

Vehicles keyed with racial slurs, printed threatening "White Power" pamphlets on the windshields and on front doors, dog/people shit on door handles - the usual harassment thingies.


wow!
totally ignorant.
(not you, me!)
in my sleepy little town?


anyway...back on topic...and feel free to join in at anytime people:

where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes?
coebul

What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes? What tapes?
scrutney

all the info is on this thread.

but....depending on who you believe...
at a recent town hall meeting, concerning a millage increase, one of the following things happened:

1.county commissioner ken bryan was assaulted by a tea party member and freaked out.
or
2.county commissioner ken bryan freaked out and verbally assaulted a tea party member.
or
3. county commissioner ken bryan was offended by being touched(as a gesture of "human connection") by a tea party member and was possibly referred to as "you people" which may or may not have been used as a racial epithet...and then freaked out.
or
4.county commissioner ken bryan threw a proffered copy of the constitution on the floor and freaked out.
or
5.county commissioner ken bryan was strickened with an uncontrollable case of jock itch and freaked out.

bier and i would like to see the video tapes, bier because he cares about the political climate in his former hometown and me?

i like to see people freak out.

where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes? where are the tapes?
scrutney

the latest from historic city:

Sheriff closes investigation into altercation

Media Relations Officer Kevin Kelshaw updated Historic City News reporters that the sheriff’s investigation has concluded involving the altercation between a St. Johns County commissioner and his wife with two citizens attending a recent public Town Hall meeting.

Investigators conducted interviews and watched surveillance video from the county auditorium and, based on the information available, there was no criminal intent found.

Neither of the parties involved wished to pursue criminal charges against the other, according to Kelshaw’s report tonight.

The outburst occurred on the night of June 27th and was reported by Historic City News on June 29th — once we obtained the sheriff’s incident report and copies of photographs of the altercation that were taken by a member of the audience.

Monday night’s meeting was the first meeting where Bryan or his wife had gotten into an altercation with citizens who have objected to the County Administrator’s plan to increase the millage rate used to calculate the amount of resident’s property taxes.

Karen Pan, St. Johns County Communications Manager, said that the final speakers of the night continued to ask their questions unabated by the disturbance going on sixty or seventy feet behind them.

We contacted Ken Bryan, allowing him an opportunity to respond and rebut any misstatements; at both his County and personal e-mail addresses, with a copy to Pan. No response has been forthcoming from Bryan.

scrut: considering the tenor of recent responses from bryan, i think historic city media can count their blessings.
bieramar

Quote:
"Investigators conducted interviews and watched surveillance video from the county auditorium and, based on the information available, there was no criminal intent found. Neither of the parties involved wished to pursue criminal charges against the other...."

"We [Historic City] contacted Ken Bryan, allowing him an opportunity to respond and rebut any misstatements; at both his County and personal e-mail addresses, with a copy to Pan [St. Johns Co. Communications Director]. No response has been forthcoming from Bryan."

Point One: No criminal intent found means that someone in the Sheriff's Dept. has made a decision that no prima facie criminal act supporting independent LEO charges is apparent. I'm not second guessing that decision, but suspect that others - on both sides - will when (IF) the unedited surveillance tapes and/or the private citizen-taken video is ever made public.

Point Two: Either party can still file civil suits regarding the actual actions, notwithstanding the Sheriff's Dept. finding that no criminal intent is apparent.

Point Three: Historic City attempted to elicit comment from Bryan.  

Was the same attempt made to the other parties - two citizens not named in this article?    

If the attempt was made to the other parties, that also should be a part of the article.

If the attempt was not made, why not?
bieramar

And the reporting from the St. Augustine Record:
---
The St. Johns County Sheriff's Office report says neither County Commissioner Ken Bryan or David West wants to press charges against the other.

Both were in the audience during County Manager Michael Wanchick's presentation of the proposed county budget and a question-and-answer session.

A deputy reported that he escorted West from the auditorium after he saw West place his hand on Bryan following an exchange between Bryan and Cindy Falco-Dicorrado had already been escorted from the auditorium by another deputy.

Both West and Falco-Dicorrado were identified the sheriff's report as members of the Tea Party.

The report says Falco-Dicorrado told deputies she was upset because Bryan did not accept a copy of the Constitution she offered him and that he told her he did not believe in the Constitution.

In the report the deputy who removed Falco-Dicorrado from the meeting said he did so because he saw her approach Bryan, instigating the incident.

For more information, check back at staugustine.com and read Thursday's edition of The St. Augsutine [sic] Record.
---
Source: http://staugustine.com/news/local.../no-charges-town-meeting-incident
====
Point One:  All the parties are identified by name and association - good journalism (notwithstanding one of the talkback comments at the above link who complained that West did NOT "place his hand" on Bryan.  She, the backtalker, said West only touched Bryan with his fingers! - gotta luv it).

Point Two:  The allegation by Falco-Dicorrado that Bryan said he doesn't believe in the Constitution has not been substantiated by any other person present, or by the investigators (or if there are witnesses their confirmations have not been published yet).

Soooooooooooooooooo where are the tapes?
bieramar

scrutney wrote:
bieramar wrote:


I remember a very similar Kelshaw statement in 2004 after a flurry of racist threats in St. Johns County against the "prominent" citizens who were publicly dating and/or married in interracial relationships - such threats and attacks seemed to re-occur every 4 or 5 years.  

Vehicles keyed with racial slurs, printed threatening "White Power" pamphlets on the windshields and on front doors, dog/people shit on door handles - the usual harassment thingies.


wow!
totally ignorant.
(not you, me!)
in my sleepy little town?


Off topic again for a moment, as some visitors could infer from this anecdote that such racist behaviour is indicative of St. Augustine residents.  

That is NOT the case, and in the recurring incidents of this type the printing of the pamphlets was always traced back to the Aryan White Power Supremist group in Palatka (which also prints a "hate" newspaper).  

All it takes/took was a handful or two of St. Augustine racists to identify the interracial couples and do the harassing.

Just as in earlier years, e.g. the 60s and early 70s, when the young white wannabe "Raiders" in pick-em-up trucks with baseball bats patrolled the Island after dark to insure that no Negros overstayed their daytime welcome as maids and yardmen. (Bubba trucks didn't appear until the Intracoastal and west county airstrip drug smuggling dollars got spread about, and much of the racist tomfoolery disappeared - they had bigger trucks and something to do after dark!).  

The classic rotten apples in a barrel simile too often tars with a wide brush.  

However it is the LEOs' responses to and acknowledgements of such incidents which does reflect the character of a community.
scrutney

bieramar wrote:



---
Source: http://staugustine.com/news/local.../no-charges-town-meeting-incident
====
Point One:  All the parties are identified by name and association - good journalism (notwithstanding one of the talkback comments at the above link who complained that West did NOT "place his hand" on Bryan.  She, the backtalker, said West only touched Bryan with his fingers! - gotta luv it).

Point Two:  The allegation by Falco-Dicorrado that Bryan said he doesn't believe in the Constitution has not been substantiated by any other person present, or by the investigators (or if there are witnesses their confirmations have not been published yet).

Soooooooooooooooooo where are the tapes?


the comments section in wacky land never disappoints.

is it my imagination or is it a lot weirder than talk of the town used to be?

there are about 5 or 6 frequent (conservative and progressive) posters over there who seem to have a grip on reality....the rest are a bubble or two off plumb.

and i can't help but wonder:

where are the tapes?
bieramar

According to poster using the nic "mike" at plazabum.com on June 30th the private video tape was being sent to Historic City News, and the surveillance tape wouldn't be sent until SJCSO cleared the investigation - which now has been done.  See: http://plazabum.com/pb/topic11.html
Also some interesting comments at that link.

So I'm sure the surveillance tape will be posted - but I understand that possibly the privately shot one may have strings attached by the video owner.

=========
As to the current Record talkback comments being weirder than TotT I think the difference is in the "prompt-response" dialectic.

There were plenty of wackos at TotT but many made only one or two posts following a specific news article which interested them IF they took the time and made the effort to follow the hyperlink from the news page.

Now it is much more simple to post, and be responded to, and then counter-respond ("any attention is better than none") and on and on -- and it has become much more like local Talk Radio with the regular wacko callins.
auntmartymoo

scrutney wrote:
bier and i would like to see the video tapes, bier because he cares about the political climate in his former hometown and me?

i like to see people freak out.


Me, too.  

And I'm betting Ken Bryan sounded a lot like a screeching Howard Dean.

Somebody taped the broadcast.  Post it, dammit!
bieramar

Video of Fight Between Tea Partier, Commissioner Released Today

By Claire Simms, Reporter
Wednesday, July 13th

ST. JOHNS COUNTY, Fla. --
Investigators released surveillance video Wednesday from an altercation between a county commissioner and a member of the St. Augustine Tea Party.

According to an informational report from the St. Johns County Sheriff's Office, the incident happened during a "town hall" meeting on the county's budget on June 27.

Deputies allege that during the presentation, a woman named Cindy Falco-DiCorrado tried to hand Commissioner Ken Bryan a copy of the United States Constitution, which he gave back. 

Falco-DiCorrado then got into an argument with Bryan's wife, who was sitting next to him.

When Bryan tried to get involved, a deputy intervened, removing Falco-DiCorrado from the county auditorium. 

During that time, a second argument started between Bryan and a man named David Eric West.  According to the report, West "placed his hands on Commissioner Bryan."

Bryan had already reviewed the video by the time it was released to the public and said he was looking forward to putting the incident behind him.

"I'm ready for everyone to just say this is the end of it," said Bryan.  "Everyone has been waiting to see the video.  Individuals can read it for whatever they want, but I'm ready to move on and do my job."

Reached by phone Wednesday, West said he was also ready to move past the argument.

So far, no charges have been filed stemming from the incident.  Both Bryan and West said at this point, they do not plan to press charges. 
---
Source: http://julingtoncreek.firstcoastn...commissioner-released-today/56664
===

But I still haven't found a link for internet viewing.
scrutney

Quote:
Investigators released surveillance video Wednesday


where?
to whom?
i haven't seen it.
how would i go about finding it?

press release circa 1972:

"richard nixon released the watergate tapes today.
the president however, didn't tell anyone where they were."
bieramar

I see comments at other sites indicating that the Sheriff's video has been linked on the net, but does not have audio and isn't persuasive for supporting either pro- or anti-Bryan criticism - however I've still not found any link to the video.

I did find several instances demonstrating that the Reverend (as she is described in some local news accounts) Cindy Falco-DiCorrado is no stranger to politics and public confrontations prior to re-locating north to St. Johns County:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=e...p;q=cindy+falco+site%3Atcpalm.com
bieramar

Video link (thanks, lurker):
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/top...sioner-Released-Today?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p
scrutney

what does "when you cross that line, that's when we start losing the credibilty we have as a nation" mean?

was county commissioner ken bryan bowing up to defend our credibility?
as a nation?

i mean our credibility is at stake.
Phred

WOW ... vicious fight ... both should have gone to jail after they got checked out at the ER.

Are you kidding me?  Much ado about nothing.
coebul

It is a local matter!  Let them eat......................."pie"!   Er cake!
scrutney

fear stalks the night in st. augustine.

tangible fear, a palpable foreboding, a presentiment of doom, that the city, the county and by extension the nation, might lose credibility if the tea party members, in their ludicrous tricorn hats and knee breeches are allowed to molest the august county commissioners in their holy quest to..to...ummmm...maintain credibility, yeah, that's it.

ken bryan has taken up the noble quest of protecting our plausibility, in the guise of "integrity guy"...strange visitor from inside the beltway, imbued with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men, seeking out the mendacity that plagues our fair city and crushing it with a flick of his mighty wrist.

"constitution? we don't need no steeenking constitution" he scoffs. "what we need is credibility....credibility and a good stout millage increse."

a ben rich columbine moment for ben kryan.




tsiya

Bryan has no more business calling himself republican than  Michael Bloomberg did!
scrutney

from historic city news:

Ethics Commission: No disclosure from Bryan

Warning that he had “checked into” the backgrounds of certain residents who object to his support of increased property taxes, Historic City News discovered that every county commissioner has met their July 1st obligation to report their assets and liabilities to the Florida Commission on Ethics — except Chairman Joseph “Ken” Bryan.

Bryan’s draconian support of a .75 mil increase in property tax assessments, proposed by County Administrator Michael Wanchick, turned violent at the last Town Hall meeting when Commissioner Bryan erupted into an intense, emotional outburst directed at a resident who Bryan had removed from the meeting.

full story

scrut asks:
correct me if i'm wrong but shouldn't it be; 'bryan's support of a draconian .75 mil increase in property tax assessments.....' ???

how would one go about engaging in draconian support?


Quote:
World English Dictionary
draconian  or  draconic  (dreɪˈkəʊnɪən, dreɪˈkɒnɪk)  

— adj  
1.  of or relating to Draco, 7th-century Athenian statesman and lawmaker, or his code of laws, which prescribed death for almost every offence  
2.  harsh: draconian legislation  

draconic  or  draconic  

— adj  

dra'conianism  or  draconic  

and that draconian support; "turned violent at the last Town Hall meeting when Commissioner Bryan erupted into an intense, emotional outburst directed at a resident who Bryan had removed from the meeting."

so bryan killed the guy?

sheesh...i need to attend these town hall meetings...free entertainment.
bieramar

Damn, next thing you'll want proper spelling as well as correct grammar!

But, got to say, that "draconian" adjective placement was the first thing I noticed also.

As to the meat of the article, since it wasn't mentioned I infer/assume that Bryan HAD met his obligation to file his net worth affidavit in previous years?

If so, the "issue" would be seen in a different light, e.g. clerical delay or something - quite different than a false attestation or refusal to file.

Here's another local website which has a bone to pick with Bryan, and many others in county government, arts council, event funding etc.:
http://conservative-research.org/w/
scrutney

we discussed, in another thread (the st augustine underground) whether it was a fair question to bring up the personal financial record of someone who asked tough questions of the bcc (or maybe it was the city...hell, i don't remember) and you (bier) agreed with the underground that bringing it up was a bit of a non-sequiter...
historic city news wrote:
In a commission meeting, subsequent to the Town Hall meeting, Bryan issued what some observers took to be a veiled threat against those who do not support the millage increase; saying that he had checked into their “backgrounds” and determined that they needed to get “their own financial houses in order”.


non sequiter?
abuse of power?
draconian?
puc reducks

Bullies and thugs sit on both city and county commissions.
bieramar

scrutney wrote:
we discussed, in another thread (the st augustine underground) whether it was a fair question to bring up the personal financial record of someone who asked tough questions of the bcc (or maybe it was the city...hell, i don't remember) and you (bier) agreed with the underground that bringing it up was a bit of a non-sequiter...

historic city news wrote:
In a commission meeting, subsequent to the Town Hall meeting, Bryan issued what some observers took to be a veiled threat against those who do not support the millage increase; saying that he had checked into their “backgrounds” and determined that they needed to get “their own financial houses in order”.


non sequiter?
abuse of power?
draconian?


The earlier discussion through my May 29 post, here: http://bumrejects.myfreeforum.org/ftopic238-0.php

Bryan's comments were made at the August 2 Commissioner's meeting, and I haven't yet found a transcript to establish the accuracy and context of the remarks quoted by others.

Here is one take [from a posted comment at St. Augustine.com later on August 2. I've numbered the paragraphs for easier comment later]:

1. "[Bryan said he] "looked into" the finances of some of the Millage Rate increase opponents own finances .Then he went on to elaborate about about how he found information that these tax increase opponents do not even have their own financial house in order and therefore have no business making comments about the County finances.

2. "[Should Bryan] take it upon himself to peruse and reveal personal information as a justification to denounce the tax payers of SJC who don't always agree with him?

3. "Believe him when he says he will investigate dissenters or will have dissenters investigated."

4. Later another St. Augustine.com reader responded to the above comment, and opined that fears of recrimination are why more people don't identify themselves and comment at public meetings.

[Excerpts from the Historic City article you linked]:

5. "The financial disclosure required by state law indicates the net worth of politicians, like Ken Bryan, and certain other officials, whose financial interest in the business of government can be compromised.  This was the case with former commissioner Thomas G. Manuel - who was arrested for taking bribes, convicted, and is today serving his sentence for public corruption in a federal prison.

6. "In a commission meeting, subsequent to the Town Hall meeting, Bryan issued what some observers took to be a veiled threat against those who do not support the millage increase; saying that he had checked into their "backgrounds" and determined that they needed to get "their own financial houses in order"....

7. "No word on when Commissioner Bryan intends to comply with the financial disclosure requirement."

My comments:

1 & 6.  Bryan's comments, if accurately quoted, are inappropriate - even without knowing what "looked into" means.  One can logically infer that others' financial activities were looked at in some manner by Bryan (even though it could be as simple as noting that "so and so" has had failed businesses, filed bankruptcy, had been associated with businesses in legal problrems etc.).  
Speculation aside, Bryan's comments should be followed up and investigated by the media and by activists and bloggers.  And Bryan should be publicly challenged in County Commission meetings to explain his comments.

2. This is a rhetorical question based upon an hypothetical, as there is no evidence that Bryan has revealed personal non public information about anyone - hence the need to investigate, and need for Bryan to explain/expand his original remarks.

3 & 4.  A premised opinion and exhortation, unaccompanied by facts.

5. The reference to Manuel by Historic City is inappropriate as his illegal acts, arrest and conviction are totally unrelated to financial disclosure under the Florida Ethics laws.  
However Bryan's apparent non-filing should be followed up by local media and activists, including if the statutory $25 a day fine for every day after the July 1 deadline that the affidavit was not of record is implemented.  
(As a former state employee, I don't discount the possibility that the financial affidavit was timely filed, BTW, hence the need for followup investigation).

Finally - as to "draconian," I don't find the tax increase, Manuel, or any of his comments rising to the level deserving that hyperbolic adjective.
bieramar

While we wait for Bryan's financial statement to be published, here are the remaining County Commissioners':

John H. "Jay" Morris, 106 Muirfield Drive, Ponte Vedra Beach, net worth reported as $4,700,000.

Cynthia W. "Cyndi" Stevenson, 148 Cattail Circle, Fruit Cove, net worth reported as $1,038,574.

Ronald F. Sanchez, 724 CR-13 South, - net worth reported as $468,000.

Mark Partridge Miner, 133 Egret Rd., St. Augustine - net worth reported as $14,381.

=================
Bieramar, General Delivery, Cedar Crest - net worth reported as $0 COB last day of month.
auntmartymoo

You should edit your post to remove their home addresses.  

Yes, I know the information is easily accessible, but YOU don't have to be the one providing it for any of the whack-jobs and skunk apes that might be lurking around here.
coebul

Hell why would he do that?  He actually lives in Montana!  Or was that Wildoming (where men are men and sheep know it).  Yeah that's the ticket...
auntmartymoo

Well.  Let me try to say this nicely.  It's just not a good idea.  

They may public figures...but their spouses and children are not.  

Providing easy access to their home addresses could put their children on the radar of a variety of lunatics.
bieramar

Tea Party chapter in turmoil - Reorganization, possibly division in the future

August 22, 2011
By  PETER GUINTA      Copyright 2011 . All rights reserved.
peter.guinta@staugustine.com

St. Augustine Tea Party plans to name a board of directors tonight "to become a more effective and professional organization," but a few disgruntled party members dumped from the board Saturday night plan a small rebellion of their own.

Board secretary Esther Miller said Tea Party Chairman Eric West and board member Randy Covington met Saturday without informing the party membership, then informed her she was no longer secretary.
"They want some of us to form another Tea Party," Miller said. "They're shutting us up. I won my seat in a contested race. I'm not leaving."

Board treasurer Lance Thate was also dumped Saturday.
"I had no idea (that would happen)," Thate said. "There was no discussion, no notice, anything. We had been in touch with the Republican Executive Committee hoping to rein in (West and Covington). When they called me to 'discuss the future of the Tea Party,' I called Esther Miller to go with me."
Thate is often seen demonstrating in a tricorn hat and holding the yellow "Don't Tread on Me" flag.
He and Miller believe West and Covington have a continuing conflict of interest by being on the boards of both the Tea Party and the REC.

Thate said, "The Tea Party didn't come into existence to be a branch of the REC. If the Republicans had been doing their job, the Tea Party wouldn't have been necessary."

Covington, however, said one reason for the leadership change is the internal disagreement about how things should be run. He said some members:
- Believe West and Covington are trying to consolidate control of both the Tea Party and REC.
- Want to continue public protests about tax increases and budget issues.
- Intend to keep attacking St. Johns County Commission Chairman Ken Bryan for exercising his First Amendment right of freedom of speech.
- Appeared on television giving interviews containing incorrect information about the Tea Party.

"We tried to discuss with them ways to bridge the gap," Covington said. "But it's their way or the highway. At a certain point, people recognize that divorce is inevitable and painful. But tomorrow the sun will rise."

He didn't know how many members will side with the disgruntled group.  "We're going to find out (tonight). The meeting should be interesting," Covington said. "It is their right to do whatever they want to do. The more tea parties, the better. Maybe we should have done some things a little more structured than we did. But we need to start on some stable basis. There has to be some boundary."

West said the Tea Party "had grown to a certain point where there are differences in tactics and strategy. One group wants to influence elections and policy and stop tax increases, while another group wants to protest, get in people's faces and almost incite riots."

He said those who don't believe in the organization's direction should form their own Tea Party.
"I welcome them to do that," he said.
About criticism he's a "Republican operative," West said many Tea Party members are in the REC.
"Are all of them suspect?" he said. "The party just seemed to be disintegrating. We didn't intend to slight anyone."

The new 12-member board will write new bylaws, he said, adding that he's not on that committee. "My fate will be whatever the board decides," he said.

The first public Tea Party meeting in St. Augustine was held at the Castillo de San Marcos grounds on April 15, 2009. St. Augustine Tea Party formed the following year.

The group's web site said the immediate focus after the "reorganization guidelines are established will be to educate and offer training to the electorate regarding the 2012 elections in every area."

Covington said the Tea Party plays "a very critical role" in politics today.
"It's poorly designed to provide guidance and governance, but it's what's right for America at the end of the day," Covington said. "The Tea Party is the only organization with the energy and focus to affect change in our political institutions."

If you go: The St. Augustine Tea Party meets tonight at the Meeting Room in Ponce de Leon Mall on U.S. 1 South at 6:30 p.m.

Training to "provide citizens and activists the tools necessary to win elections" is available on Saturday, Aug. 27, from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.
Registration fee of $25 includes lunch.
To register, visit: http://americanmajority.org/events/st-augustine-fl-activist-training/
---

Source, and lots of comments from the 'usual suspects': http://staugustine.com/news/local...1-08-22/tea-party-chapter-turmoil

===
"One group wants to influence elections and policy and stop tax increases, while another group wants to protest, get in people's faces and almost incite riots."

In any grassroots movement with a common anti-establishment goal - whether in St. Augustine or Tripoli - it is inevitable that a split in tactics arises as the initial goal, and how to reach it, is refined and defined.  

The pragmatic thinkers split and march down one path, and the dramatic intransigents rush down another.  Which path is seen as "left" and which is seen as "right" depends on the observers' biases.  

It is at this decisive and divisive juncture that the real continuing effectiveness of the movement toward change is determined.

Until we de-Party our local, state and federal governments' representative branch elections; thus opening the doors of our legislatures for proportional representation of the numerous movements of voters who don't "fit" into either the Democrats or Republicans, the effectiveness of these movements will remain limited to the negatives of stalling or stopping unwanted change, not the positives of effecting wanted change.
puc reducks

I hope the "Tea Party" here disintegrates right before our faces.
tsiya

The Tea Party is doing just fine ,and  once we purge the damned RINOs we will be doing even better..
puc reducks

tsiya wrote:
The Tea Party is doing just fine ,and  once we purge the damned RINOs we will be doing even better..


Bob, I don't think that is true for here, or nationally, for that matter.

Tea Party is on the down swing, where it should be.  JMO.  Cool
coebul

puc reducks wrote:
I hope the "Tea Party" here disintegrates right before our faces.
And why is that Puc?  I not only hope the Tea Party expands and solidifies it's base I would love to see the Democrats experience the same thing.  

What better way to experience democracy in action??  

At the moment you have two parties being controlled by the fringes.  And what do you have?  The most partisan bickering in Washington in decades.  

If the fringes were to solidify into different parties you would be able to see the pros and cons of each individual party.  

I am all for the Tea Party and any other party that surfaces as a political unit.

Wouldn't it be a novel thought for the Dems and the Reps to band together to fight the extremes?
scrutney

Quote:
Thate is often seen demonstrating in a tricorn hat and holding the yellow "Don't Tread on Me" flag.


yeah...like i'm going to take anyone wearing knee britches and a tricorn hat seriously.
if that sounds like a scrutney-esque patented snotty remark, ask yourself...is anyone in their right mind going to trust anyone wearing full 18th century, stand and stare gear to represent their political interests.

Quote:
He said those who don't believe in the organization's direction should form their own Tea Party.


yep...the first executive council meeting of the scrutney chapter of the tea party is tonight at my house.
drinks will be served by scantilly clad serving wenches.
y'all are cordially not invited to attend.
i like y'all but you're whatcha call counter productive to our interests.

and i know that there's another tea party meeting going on down the road with a guy who makes hats, some chick named alice and a rabbit with a pocket watch.

Quote:
The more tea parties, the better.


you betcha.
bieramar

Tea Party reorganization 'chaos' - Uncontrolled furor sparks early close

August 24, 2011
By  PETER GUINTA  
Copyright © 2011 All rights reserved.

A verbal battle for control of the St. Augustine Tea Party began immediately after the Pledge of Allegiance at their reorganization meeting Tuesday night, ending only when a frustrated Chairman Eric West gaveled the noisy and unruly meeting to a close.

West told several rowdy members, "Don't turn this into a circus."

But many loyal tea party members didn't want to listen.

They were deeply angry at the way West and board member Randy Covington had secretly fired the chapter's third board member, Lance Thate, and secretary Esther Miller on Saturday and then announced a new 12-person board without any input or notice from members.

Bob Kuczewski said, "I've never seen this board before."
His motion to have the membership vote on the new board was seconded by several members.
West said, "There's not going to be a vote on that."


The statement only added to the rumble of rebellion.

Kathy Delaney told West and Covington, "That doesn't sound good. It sounds like you guys are dictators. The tea party is all of us, not all of you."

But, apparently, it isn't.

West pointed out that since he and Covington had filed the articles of incorporation in Tallahassee, they were in charge. Legally, everyone else is an invited guest.
"You don't have to be a member of this organization," he told the dissenters.

Kuczewski said he and other members were working on drafting a set of bylaws. However, West had announced on the local tea party website that the new board would now do that job.

"This board was not elected," Kuczewski said. "How can you remove board members who are elected? It's not about getting our way. It's about getting a vote."

Audience member Ron Covato stood up and told Cindy Falco-DiCorrado, who was loudly talking over anyone trying to speak, "You've already chased six people out of here. You're not helping. You're destroying. You're creating chaos."

Indeed, several older couples, distressed by the loud, unfocused arguing, did get up and leave.
Miller said she'd been working on the bylaws. "That's no reason to remove me," she said.

Jim Young, attending a St. Augustine Tea Party meeting for the first time, told the embattled West, "I don't know how you got elected, but you're alienating all of these people. If they don't feel involved, they won't come back."

Vecie Yasinsac suggested that the board use Robert's Rules of Order, but West said that at a previous meeting, the membership voted down that idea, wanting to stick to a consensus form of decision-making.

Yasinsac said, "I don't think anybody should have done anything without the consent of the membership."

Joe Ryan said, "How did you two become directors? The tea party here was started by the area tea parties. What you unelected guys pulled, to throw a board member off, is an underhanded trick."

Malcolm Kingsley, husband of one of the new board members, defended West.

"He filed the corporate papers. We're invited guests and members only. What they did was completely legal," Kingsley said.

When that drew vehement comment, and control was lost of the speakers, West adjourned the meeting.

Ryan went outside, taking names for the possible formation of a St. Augustine chapter of the First Coast Tea Party, which is based in Jacksonville.

But he said he wouldn't quit.

"We're not giving up on this group," he said. "They're exercising a power play."

Several members muttered that the result of the meeting was exactly what the "progressives" wanted, to destroy the tea party. There was suspicion that "political operatives" had attended and contributed to the possible breakup of the tea party.

Richard Gould was outside. "All of a sudden, I don't know what happened," he said.

One of the new board members, Fran Schoenberger, said, "This has been nerve-wracking for all of us. But we've all got to overcome it for the sake of our country."

Neither West nor Covington seemed discouraged. They are not unhappy that some of the more excitable dissenters may be leaving.

"Everyone will find their own way and do their own thing, and we'll all wake up in the morning," West said.

Covington said, "Both sides have the same goal in mind, be we have different ways of getting to that goal. Within the scope of our country's constitution, there has to be room for competing positions."

When asked if there were plans for the next meeting, both West and Covington said they didn't know.
---
http://staugustine.com/news/local...23/tea-party-reorganization-chaos
===

Apparently "progressives" is the politically correct paranoic codeword replacing the "liberals" and "socialists" of yore?

It tickles me to see cognitive dissonance of those loudly protesting that they are the true representatives of the Founders' Constitutional views while simultaneously demanding consensus, i.e. pure democracy (mob rule) in approving rule-making and endorsement of actions.
bieramar

Editorial: Is Ken Bryan a "moral opportunist"?
October 31, 2011  

St. Johns County Commission chairman Joseph "Ken" Bryan sits on high; he is perched above lowly taxpayers who dare approach the podium, in dissent and distress, at the auditorium of the County Administration Palace - where he metes out fire and brimstone the likes of which Martin Luther himself could only fancy.

However, the controversial commissioner slipped out of his vestments Thursday night, during a $30 a head fundraising event at the posh Serenata Beach Club in South Ponte Vedra Beach - seizing the opportunity to not only "model" a woman's brassier [sic], but also to bump-and-grind a few extra dollars into his waistband from excited women, titillated by his risqué gestures.

In stark contrast to Council on Aging Executive Director Cathy Brown, who served as the auctioneer for a silent auction at the October 27th event, witnesses report that there was nothing "silent"about Bryan's behavior.

Reminiscent of a scene from a bawdy bachelorette party, perhaps it was the intoxicating moves performed by the commissioner, or, perhaps it was the intoxicating $5.00 Appletinis, Cosmopolitans, Tequinis, Lemon Drops, Dirty Martinis, Vodka Martinis, Gin Martinis, and Watermelon Rumtinis, that made Bryan such a hit with the ladies.

According to the announcement, the event was co-sponsored by the non-profit Art Breakers organization; founded by women helping uninsured and underserved cancer patients in our community, and, the St. Augustine Regional Council; a group of residential and commercial real estate advocates.

Don't know about you, but, for me, I find it a little hard to take seriously the admonitions of a man who professes to have righteous motives for our community in one instance then behaves like a dime store floozy in another. I guess whether you are pandering to the voters, or, pandering to the prurient interests of a flock of liquored-up, hormonal real estate salesladies at a hen party - pandering is still pandering.

Shameful. Absolutely, shameful.
--
Source, including photograph of the event: http://www.historiccity.com/2011/...ken-bryan-moral-opportunist-20258
===

"Martin Luther himself" - ROFLMAO
tsiya

"moral opportunist"?

Yep, that will serve as well as RINO.
jasmine

bieramar wrote:
Editorial: Is Ken Bryan a "moral opportunist"?
October 31, 2011  

St. Johns County Commission chairman Joseph "Ken" Bryan sits on high; he is perched above lowly taxpayers who dare approach the podium, in dissent and distress, at the auditorium of the County Administration Palace - where he metes out fire and brimstone the likes of which Martin Luther himself could only fancy.

However, the controversial commissioner slipped out of his vestments Thursday night, during a $30 a head fundraising event at the posh Serenata Beach Club in South Ponte Vedra Beach - seizing the opportunity to not only "model" a woman's brassier [sic], but also to bump-and-grind a few extra dollars into his waistband from excited women, titillated by his risqué gestures.

In stark contrast to Council on Aging Executive Director Cathy Brown, who served as the auctioneer for a silent auction at the October 27th event, witnesses report that there was nothing "silent"about Bryan's behavior.

Reminiscent of a scene from a bawdy bachelorette party, perhaps it was the intoxicating moves performed by the commissioner, or, perhaps it was the intoxicating $5.00 Appletinis, Cosmopolitans, Tequinis, Lemon Drops, Dirty Martinis, Vodka Martinis, Gin Martinis, and Watermelon Rumtinis, that made Bryan such a hit with the ladies.

According to the announcement, the event was co-sponsored by the non-profit Art Breakers organization; founded by women helping uninsured and underserved cancer patients in our community, and, the St. Augustine Regional Council; a group of residential and commercial real estate advocates.

Don't know about you, but, for me, I find it a little hard to take seriously the admonitions of a man who professes to have righteous motives for our community in one instance then behaves like a dime store floozy in another. I guess whether you are pandering to the voters, or, pandering to the prurient interests of a flock of liquored-up, hormonal real estate salesladies at a hen party - pandering is still pandering.

Shameful. Absolutely, shameful.
--
Source, including photograph of the event: http://www.historiccity.com/2011/...ken-bryan-moral-opportunist-20258
===

"Martin Luther himself" - ROFLMAO


Let's get something straight here.  I am a part of the organization that puts on the "Bratini" function and it raised a lot of money for Art Breakers.  I didn't get to go because I had to work Friday, but these women, who are very close to me, worked their butts off to pull this off, and this post (whoever made it) was offensive.  Bryan wore one of the bras that was hand made by people I know.  It is not bawdy, nor is it disrespectful , it is a fun time, and does raise a lot of money.  It was not shameful.  The picture that was taken was a picture taken by a close friend of mine and used by "Michael Gold", so I just found out, to hurt Bryan.  I give credit to the guys that wore these bras because they were doing it for a good cause.  Yes, there was liquor sold, so what.  

THIS IS INFURIATING to me, and I am so tired of the close mindedness of the people in St. Augustine.  HURRAY TO BRYAN for having the gonads to do this.
auntmartymoo

For what it's worth...

After reading the editorial, I googled Art Breakers and visited the website.  What a terrific charity!  Artists for the Fight Against Cancer

I plan to make a donation.
jasmine

auntmartymoo wrote:
For what it's worth...

After reading the editorial, I googled Art Breakers and visited the website.  What a terrific charity!  Artists for the Fight Against Cancer

I plan to make a donation.


Thanks AMM.  The girls worked so hard to put on this terrific show at Serenata and a lot of moiney was raised.
scrutney

although philisophically i have a minor problem with a bcc member strutting his bad self clad in women's undergarments, i must admit that it's most lilely my problem and not that of the county commission's amazing sex machine.

still, on the vulgar display of bad taste scale this barely rates a one.

and on the scale of debasing one's self for a good cause, bryan rates a nine.

advantage bryan.

i wept that i had no bra until i met a man who had no ta-tas ~ j. edgar hoover.
puc reducks

scrutney wrote:
although philisophically i have a minor problem with a bcc member strutting his bad self clad in women's undergarments, i must admit that it's most lilely my problem and not that of the county commission's amazing sex machine.

still, on the vulgar display of bad taste scale this barely rates a one.

and on the scale of debasing one's self for a good cause, bryan rates a nine.

advantage bryan.

i wept that i had no bra until i met a man who had no ta-tas ~ j. edgar hoover.


BEST LAUGH OF THE DAY!!!
jasmine

scrutney wrote:
although philisophically i have a minor problem with a bcc member strutting his bad self clad in women's undergarments, i must admit that it's most lilely my problem and not that of the county commission's amazing sex machine.

still, on the vulgar display of bad taste scale this barely rates a one.

and on the scale of debasing one's self for a good cause, bryan rates a nine.

advantage bryan.

i wept that i had no bra until i met a man who had no ta-tas ~ j. edgar hoover.


None of the guys had ta-tas, but you had to be their to appreciate what it took for these guys (I know a few) to get up there.  I have been to two of these events, and what a hoot it is.  Sorry I missed this one 'cause Bryan was dancing to a really silly song.  ALL this publicity has done is make the people who made these comments look really small and Bratini next year will be bigger and better then ever.
puc reducks

Way to go, Jasmine!  I agree!!!   Very Happy

BTW, do you know the song Bryan was dancing to?
Phred

The VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) held a similar event a couple of weeks ago ... raised a tidy sum of money for breast cancer.

While I applaud the cause, this group of hard core combat veterans made some darned ugly women.

I now applaud Bryan for his similar efforts.

Hmmm, I might have some pictures of the VFW event laying around here somewhere.  Anyone interested in seeing a bunch of crusty old veterans prancing around in very heavy make up and very ill-fitting dresses and nightgowns?
puc reducks

Phred wrote:
The VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) held a similar event a couple of weeks ago ... raised a tidy sum of money for breast cancer.

While I applaud the cause, this group of hard core combat veterans made some darned ugly women.

I now applaud Bryan for his similar efforts.

Hmmm, I might have some pictures of the VFW event laying around here somewhere.  Anyone interested in seeing a bunch of crusty old veterans prancing around in very heavy make up and very ill-fitting dresses and nightgowns?


Are you serious, possum?  I absolutely LIVE for such photos!  See, that's Barry Humphries in drag as Dame Edna (my avatar)!  Definitely post!!!
mike

jasmine wrote:
this post (whoever made it) was offensive.

If by "post" you mean the original editorial, I wrote it.

jasmine wrote:
It is not bawdy, nor is it disrespectful , it is a fun time, and does raise a lot of money.  It was not shameful.

That is a perfectly satisfactory difference of opinion.

jasmine wrote:
The picture that was taken was a picture taken by a close friend of mine and used by "Michael Gold", so I just found out, to hurt Bryan.




I do not possess the power to make a picture hurt anyone.  The picture speaks for itself -- you think either it is inappropriate for the Chairman of the Board of County Commissioners to behave that way, or, you don't.  No big deal to me either way -- I just expressed my opinion of the photograph.  Oh, and by the way, just so you know, I didn't ask for that photograph, two different readers forwarded it to me along with their opinions of what it meant to them.  I have no idea who took the original unless one of the readers who submitted it to me took it themself.



I also did not take the picture above -- it, too, was submitted by a reader.  Draw your own conclusion to it and the dozen other photographs about Bryan's behavior that night.

jasmine wrote:
I give credit to the guys that wore these bras because they were doing it for a good cause.  Yes, there was liquor sold, so what.  THIS IS INFURIATING to me, and I am so tired of the close mindedness of the people in St. Augustine.


Textbook example of an argument based on a straw man fallacy.  The editorial opinion piece was not about raising money to help cancer victims.  If a woman walks into a church, pulls out a .45 caliber automatic, then starts taking pot shots at parishioners, does that make her behavior OK -- because the church is there to save souls?

I expressed my opinion about the wisdom (or lack thereof) of a high ranking elected official, in public view, allowing women to pull at his pants and push money into his belt.  A scene like that would never happen, nor would photographs surface that prove otherwise, during any number of other similar events; like a "womanless wedding" or a simple "runway" fashion show like the one produced by the Betty Griffin House.

Agree or disagree.  Fine by me.  All I ask is that you focus your indignation on the opinions I expressed about the commissioner's behavior, not a made up, imaginary dislike of helping cancer victims, because THAT is ridiculous.
auntmartymoo

I dunno, Mike.  You might be unintentionally over-reacting to an unintentional over-reaction.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that Jasmine was mortified that the editorial might have damaged the reputation of a charity that is near and dear to her heart.

Of course, it just so happens that the editorial brought the charity to my attention...and as many of you know, I am quite generous to my pet charities.  So, in the end, the editorial probably helped Jasmine's charity a bit...though she didn't know it at the time of her posting.
scrutney

Quote:
If a woman walks into a church, pulls out a .45 caliber automatic, then starts taking pot shots at parishioners, does that make her behavior OK -- because the church is there to save souls?


catholic church or baptist?


good to see ya mike.
jasmine

puc reducks wrote:
Way to go, Jasmine!  I agree!!!   Very Happy

BTW, do you know the song Bryan was dancing to?


Up, Up and Away, My Beautiful Ballon, by The Fifth Dimension.
jasmine

auntmartymoo wrote:
I dunno, Mike.  You might be unintentionally over-reacting to an unintentional over-reaction.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that Jasmine was mortified that the editorial might have damaged the reputation of a charity that is near and dear to her heart.

Of course, it just so happens that the editorial brought the charity to my attention...and as many of you know, I am quite generous to my pet charities.  So, in the end, the editorial probably helped Jasmine's charity a bit...though she didn't know it at the time of her posting.


Laughing
jasmine

[quote="jasmine:8717"]
auntmartymoo wrote:
I dunno, Mike.  You might be unintentionally over-reacting to an unintentional over-reaction.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that Jasmine was mortified that the editorial might have damaged the reputation of a charity that is near and dear to her heart.

Of course, it just so happens that the editorial brought the charity to my attention...and as many of you know, I am quite generous to my pet charities.  So, in the end, the editorial probably helped Jasmine's charity a bit...though she didn't know it at the time of her posting.


Thanks for the support AMM, it sure did raise an awareness of the event and it will be bigger and better next year.
auntmartymoo

Phred wrote:
Hmmm, I might have some pictures of the VFW event laying around here somewhere.  Anyone interested in seeing a bunch of crusty old veterans prancing around in very heavy make up and very ill-fitting dresses and nightgowns?

Well, post 'em already...you big tease!
auntmartymoo

jasmine wrote:
Thanks for the support AMM, it sure did raise an awareness of the event and it will be bigger and better next year.

Funny how things turn out.  I suppose any press is good press when you want people to find out about your charity!

I'm a sap for charities that support cancer patients...and I love the fact that Art Breakers has the artsy-fartsy set helping to raise money.  (I'm also a sap for artsy-fartsy things.)

Some of my favorite Atlanta charities have been doing "Sips & Strokes" types of fundraising events.  Participants pay around $50 to $100 each (and bring their own adult beverages) to come to a group "lesson" from a local painter.  The artist has a small canvas, easel and paint supplies for each participant...and walks all of them through the process of duplicating one of her paintings.

I've been to several of these fundraisers and they are a blast.  People like me who appreciate art, but have no talent for it...love to be able to paint something beautiful and take it home!  And there's also all the socializing, laughter and...wine.

Anyway, I was thinking that maybe some events of that kind could be another vehicle for Art Breaker to raise revenues .

(Sorry about derailing Cheezy McBryan's thread...it was for a good cause.)
Phred

Quote:
Well, post 'em already...you big tease!


Hmmm, still thinkin about it, but, having read several of the preceding post I'm a little nervous.  It might be possible that some of the folks in our photos could be "recognizable" also.

I believe in having fun, especially when it's for a good cause, but if posting pictures could cause anyone distress, it just ain't worth it.

I'll see several of the "girls" tonite at the "V" ... I'll make a decision by tomorrow (Saturday).
bieramar

Pollywogs and shellbacks come to mind

As titillating as the photos might be for most of us regulars, I think you shouldn't post them - for lots of reasons.

Including but not limited to the location (I'm assuming the VFW club) being private property, and the unintended offending of persons other than the subjects, even if they signed off on release.

Plus you never know when someone might become a "public figure."
tsiya

You can photoshop brown paper bags over their heads if you have photoshop. Very Happy
puc reducks

Re: Pollywogs and shellbacks come to mind

bieramar wrote:
As titillating as the photos might be for most of us regulars, I think you shouldn't post them - for lots of reasons.

Including but not limited to the location (I'm assuming the VFW club) being private property, and the unintended offending of persons other than the subjects, even if they signed off on release.

Plus you never know when someone might become a "public figure."


Agreed.  The most prudent route.

(Darn.)
scrutney

mike seems to be catching a lot of hell for his bra-tergate op-ed.
jasmine

auntmartymoo wrote:
Phred wrote:
Hmmm, I might have some pictures of the VFW event laying around here somewhere.  Anyone interested in seeing a bunch of crusty old veterans prancing around in very heavy make up and very ill-fitting dresses and nightgowns?

Well, post 'em already...you big tease!


Would love to see the pics.  Apparently only "high profile" individuals get negative attention.  Bring them on Phred
jasmine

tsiya wrote:
You can photoshop brown paper bags over their heads if you have photoshop. Very Happy


Laughing
tsiya

Once upon a time someone we all probably know complained when I posted a photo of a crowd and she happened to be in it. I gave her a nice brown paper bag job and reposted the photo. Only a fool takes on a Redneck who knows photoshop! Shocked
jasmine

scrutney wrote:
mike seems to be catching a lot of hell for his bra-tergate op-ed.


He didn't attend the function, and neither did I, but I know the hours and hours of work that goes on behind the scenes to put on this event.  They started doing this 3 years ago and I did go to the first one and it is very funny, yet done tastefully.  I give so much credit to the men that wore the bras and did their little dance. Sorry about the rant folks, there are 2 sides to every story and I felt I had to tell the other side.  I just read the article, Scrut and I guess he did take some heat.
scrutney

your rants are always welcome here, jazz.
especially when they're for a good cause.
auntmartymoo

Re: Pollywogs and shellbacks come to mind

puc reducks wrote:
bieramar wrote:
As titillating as the photos might be for most of us regulars, I think you shouldn't post them - for lots of reasons.

Including but not limited to the location (I'm assuming the VFW club) being private property, and the unintended offending of persons other than the subjects, even if they signed off on release.

Plus you never know when someone might become a "public figure."


Agreed.  The most prudent route.

(Darn.)

Dangit.  Prudence is no fun.  

Let's party, instead!

It'll be great...we'll have some martinis...make fun of men in bras... and engage in some wanton name-calling.  

Guido will never know.
scrutney

Re: Pollywogs and shellbacks come to mind

auntmartymoo wrote:
puc reducks wrote:
bieramar wrote:
As titillating as the photos might be for most of us regulars, I think you shouldn't post them - for lots of reasons.

Including but not limited to the location (I'm assuming the VFW club) being private property, and the unintended offending of persons other than the subjects, even if they signed off on release.

Plus you never know when someone might become a "public figure."


Agreed.  The most prudent route.

(Darn.)

Dangit.  Prudence is no fun.  

Let's party, instead!

It'll be great...we'll have some martinis...make fun of men in bras... and engage in some wanton name-calling.  

Guido will never know.


guido usually isn't anywhere to be found when coebul is at elk camp, hunting god knows what (but i can assure you that it's not sobriety.)

and i'll have you know that my high school girlfriend, (senior year) was named prudence and she put the lie to your statement.

and don't get me started on faith, hope and charity.
party animals, the 3 of them.
tsiya

Who took that picture anyway? The white balance setting on that camera is way off the scale.
puc reducks

Is the fair-haired little lad with the screw driver coming back?

There's a surly teen where he used to be.  And from the looks of him, I'd say his brain was fried (one way or another).

11-11-11.  Other than that couple in the Record who is getting on 11-11-11, at 11:11:11 a.m., is there anything else we need to know?

Is anything "rapturous" likely to occur...
scrutney

puc reducks wrote:
Is the fair-haired little lad with the screw driver coming back?

There's a surly teen where he used to be.  And from the looks of him, I'd say his brain was fried (one way or another).

11-11-11.  Other than that couple in the Record who is getting on 11-11-11, at 11:11:11 a.m., is there anything else we need to know?

Is anything "rapturous" likely to occur...


that's christopher guest in his 'spinal tap' role as nigel tufnel, the man who had the loudest amplifier in show business...(mine goes to eleven.)
bieramar

Welcome random search engine visitor.

Many philosophies believe that you somehow ended up on this page for a reason. It is not known if it is the result of predestination, random chance, fate, a higher power, or something else.

This article provides a synopsis of the possible implications of the 11/11/11 date singularity and of the number eleven; followed by a quick metaphysics experiment.

Continues: http://paradigmsearch.hubpages.co...d-a-Metaphysics-Experiment-111111
puc reducks

scrutney wrote:
puc reducks wrote:
Is the fair-haired little lad with the screw driver coming back?

There's a surly teen where he used to be.  And from the looks of him, I'd say his brain was fried (one way or another).

11-11-11.  Other than that couple in the Record who is getting on 11-11-11, at 11:11:11 a.m., is there anything else we need to know?

Is anything "rapturous" likely to occur...


that's christopher guest in his 'spinal tap' role as nigel tufnel, the man who had the loudest amplifier in show business...(mine goes to eleven.)


Christopher Guest!  Of course.  NOW I see it.  Love "Spinal Tap."
puc reducks

bieramar wrote:
Welcome random search engine visitor.

Many philosophies believe that you somehow ended up on this page for a reason. It is not known if it is the result of predestination, random chance, fate, a higher power, or something else.

This article provides a synopsis of the possible implications of the 11/11/11 date singularity and of the number eleven; followed by a quick metaphysics experiment.

Continues: http://paradigmsearch.hubpages.co...d-a-Metaphysics-Experiment-111111


hub[er]pages.com ???  Is this one of yours, Bieramar?   Wink
bieramar

puc reducks wrote:
hub[er]pages.com ???  Is this one of yours, Bieramar?   Wink


O would that it be so!

They're my kind of people (like my daughter and son-in-law) and the hope for the future - just reading the bios makes my heart hop for joy:
http://hubpages.com/about/team
Phred

Thanx for the advice y'all ... I'm taking it ... no pics.

Also, a couple of the "participants" said they'd rather not see them on a public forum.

But, I do have them on a CD ... anyone for happy hour(s) one day?   Wink
tsiya

Send them to me, I've got plenty of bags!


Very Happy
bieramar

Bryan target of racial slur in ad - County commissioner suspects Historic City News owner of sending email

By PETER GUINTA
peter.guinta@staugustine.com
August 6, 2012
Copyright 2012 St. Augustine Record.

A political email sent to an unknown number of St. Johns County residents Monday accused St. Johns County Commissioner Ken Bryan of being "a common thug"¯ and made references to his speaking "Ebonics"¯ in a YouTube video linked to the message.

It's not clear who wrote the email, but Bryan thinks he knows.

The email was sent under the pseudonym Hiram Abiff, who in history was the architect of the Temple of Solomon, and from the address jubela.jubelo.jubelum@gmail.com. Both are obscure references to Masonic legend.

But the address traces back to two websites, www.awfulpeople.com and www.plazabum.com, both owned by Michael Gold, owner of the online newspaper Historic City News. In addition, some recipients of the ad are on Historic City's subscriber list.

Also, the ad's wording is nearly the same as a letter to the editor published in Historic City News on Monday under the name "Michael Morgante"¯ of St. Augustine.

A search of telephone and address records in St. Johns County found no such person.

Gold denies he sent the email, saying he rents server space to others.

"They might have written and sent that. I have no idea,"¯ Gold said. "Our subscriber list is secure. I don't make it available to other people. I publish a half-dozen letters a day and don't always know the people who wrote them."¯

He said he wasn't a Mason.

Ebonics is a term created by black scholars and referring to African-American vernacular English. It has come to have a derogatory meaning.

The email had attached a flier titled "No Republican Would Vote for Ken Bryan,"¯ which disparages Bryan with misinformation.

The charge that Bryan is "a thug"¯ resulted from an incident last year. The flier claimed the commissioner "attacked a citizen during a Town Hall meeting and should have been arrested on the spot."¯ Witnesses and a St. Augustine Record reporter say they saw Bryan stand up in a posture to defend his wife, Lauren, when he perceived local tea party president Eric West approaching her.

Both men had been disagreeing over an issue from afar. When they got closer a few words were spoken, but no blows were struck and no one was arrested.

The local tea party - now split into two mutually hostile organizations - has said often that Bryan must go.

Bryan said Monday night that he believes Gold wrote the email with the tacit backing of the local Republican Executive Committee.

"Michael Gold is a failure,"¯ Bryan said. "He's a jealous racist. He hacked into my Facebook account and said that I didn't walk like a disabled veteran. I was a crew chief in the Air Force. On one of his sites he made fun of my wife."

He said it was "appalling"¯ that some Republicans were blasting people for once being Democrats. "This is the greatest opportunity for Republicans to welcome those who switch parties,"¯ he said. "This belief divides the community. This ad is a personal vendetta."¯
---
Internet source, and after-comments from readers:
http://staugustine.com/news/local...08-06/bryan-target-racial-slur-ad
===

The anti-Bryan ad also appeared on my "Chuck Huber" Facebook wall -- identified as being sent from error={plazabum.com} J.D.PlazaBum III's Facebook account.

EDIT: Excuse my error, above - the ad didn't come from plazabum.com as I earlier posted.
scrutney

i just saw the article and was coming over here to post it but you (bier) beat me to it.

holy crap.

this way to the egress.

edited to add:

bier wrote:
The anti-Bryan ad also appeared on my "Chuck Huber" Facebook wall -- identified as being sent from Plazabum.com


plazabum has been out of commission (no pun intended) for about a week now. if you punch it up on the computer you get the following message:

The forums are temporarily down for maintenance. Please try again in a few minutes.

Administrator


i always thought that morgante guy was bogus.
maybe he's the administrator.

edited a second time...
here's the attack ad in question:


tsiya

Bryan should never have been allowed to claim being a republican, he doesn't have a clue what it means.
scrutney

strange and wondrous...now when you hit the link for plazabum.com you get a redirect to this site:
http://www.awfulpoliticians.com/

tsiya

I'd best stay away from old Ken, the last time someone pointed a finger at me like that I punched his butt right through a screen door. Very Happy

Whatever Ken is he ISN'T a republican. I would have no problem with him running as what he is, a democrat. I will never vote for him either way but I'd have more respect for him if he ran the race honestly.
scrutney

tsiya wrote:
I'd best stay away from old Ken, the last time someone pointed a finger at me like that I punched his butt right through a screen door. Very Happy

Whatever Ken is he ISN'T a republican. I would have no problem with him running as what he is, a democrat. I will never vote for him either way but I'd have more respect for him if he ran the race honestly.


c'mon tsiya...i'll hold bryan accountable for a lot of things but running as a republican isn't one of them.

however the next time i run into slavin, i will accuse him of shilling for the g.o.p.

that ought to light him up.

edited to add:
i posted a link to this page at the wackyland gazette...needless to say, they deleted it. those little scamps.
bieramar

Miner has harsh words for publisher - Chairman leaving brings Bryan back

August 7, 2012
By PETER GUINTA
peter.guinta@staugustine.com
©2012 St. Augustine Record

Mark Miner coldly revealed his anger toward Historic City News Publisher Michael Gold on Tuesday, saying Gold
"spews vitriol from hidden websites"¯ and abuses the rights afforded to him by the U.S. Constitution, among other accusations.

Miner, chairman of the St. Johns County Commission, was angry because he believes Gold issued an email under a fake name that contained insulting statements and a racial slur against Commissioner Ken Bryan. He made the remarks Tuesday morning during a commission meeting in the County Auditorium.

Gold, who was not at the meeting, has denied writing the email or knowing who did.

Gold did not return requests for comment on the allegations.

This was Miner's last commission meeting. He will attend Warrant Officer school at Fort Rucker, Ala., for the next year and must depart Friday. He looked toward Vice Chairman Jay Morris to take over, which is what usually happens when the chairman is away.

However, Morris said that while he looks forward to serving the county as chairman in 2013, he would like Bryan to return as chairman for the remaining three months of the term. His motion for that passed 5-0.

Bryan said, "I really appreciate your confidence."¯

Miner said it takes a lot of work and sacrifice to serve in public office.
"I want to thank the public for its trust. Everybody up here is trying to do what is best for the community,"¯ he said.

Commissioner Ron Sanchez said he was quickly impressed by Miner's intelligence and leadership when "The Kid"¯ joined the board in 2008.

During public comment, St. Augustine Beach resident Alfred Guido said Miner displayed "continuity, integrity and honesty. That is a constant reminder of why we can wish him nothing but the best as he pursues his dreams."¯

County Administrator Mike Wanchick said Miner had displayed "personal and political courage." Staff members presented Miner with a scrapbook full of "highlights," photos and an American flag that had flown over the County Administration building.

"When you were elected, you were 24,"¯ Wanchick joked. "Public officials usually age in dog years, so by my calculations you're about 52 right now."¯

Commissioners pointed out that this commission reduced the size of county government by 22 percent, dropped the budget by $168 million, had the lowest taxes in Northeast Florida and the highest quality of life.

County Attorney Patrick McCormack called Miner "the epitome of the citizen soldier. (He is) a model citizen and model public servant. From the first week (he was) here, everyone's eyes were open. The only agenda he has is to serve the people of St. Johns County."¯

During commissioner comments at the end, several commissioners recommended that voters choose Commissioner Cyndi Stevenson and Bryan in the Primary Election Aug. 14.

However, that did not sit well with St. Augustine resident B.J. Kalaidi, who said, "It is inappropriate for elected officials to use a commission meeting to campaign for other members of the board who are running for election."¯

She also had some chastising words for Miner. "For Chairman Miner to use his position as a bully pulpit to attack an individual is not demonstrating civility,"¯ Kalaidi said.
--
Source, and after-comments: http://staugustine.com/news/local...7/miner-has-harsh-words-publisher
bieramar

Editor Gold's response

Politicians don't control Historic City News

August 8, 2012    
By News Desk    

Just a note to more than 11,000 registered users of historiccity.com and over 5,200 daily subscribers to Weekday Issue who have expressed concern that incumbent political candidates, not endorsed by Historic City News, would use their position to squelch the voice of our reporters, rest assured, that will not be the outcome.

I am privileged to edit our daily news journal without fear or favor. I am not going to be fired if I don't make one politician or another happy with published news articles, editorial commentary, or correspondence from our readers and advertisers.

The first thing a dictator does as he comes to power is to shut down the free press; thereby controlling the information seen and heard by the people. No one wants to live in a community with only one source of news and Historic City News respects our role in that regard.

Editorially, Historic City News does not view our universe in terms of the color of our reader's [sic] skin.

We may not always publish comments that are "politically correct" but we will not be censored by those who subscribe to opinions and politics simply because we disagree.

Thanks for reading.
Michael Gold
Editor
bieramar

Editor Gold's response

Politicians don't control Historic City News

August 8, 2012    
By News Desk    

Just a note to more than 11,000 registered users of historiccity.com and over 5,200 daily subscribers to Weekday Issue who have expressed concern that incumbent political candidates, not endorsed by Historic City News, would use their position to squelch the voice of our reporters, rest assured, that will not be the outcome.

I am privileged to edit our daily news journal without fear or favor. I am not going to be fired if I don't make one politician or another happy with published news articles, editorial commentary, or correspondence from our readers and advertisers.

The first thing a dictator does as he comes to power is to shut down the free press; thereby controlling the information seen and heard by the people. No one wants to live in a community with only one source of news and Historic City News respects our role in that regard.

Editorially, Historic City News does not view our universe in terms of the color of our reader's [sic] skin.

We may not always publish comments that are "politically correct" but we will not be censored by those who subscribe to opinions and politics simply because we disagree.

Thanks for reading.
Michael Gold
Editor

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