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scrutney

the music must change

puc's going to admonish me for this but i had a glass of wine tonight (okay, i had several but the wine was an extremely dry cabernet and i'll walk most of it off tomorrow morning).

having said that...i was listening to music this evening (there's a surprise) and i had an epiphany. well maybe it wasn't an epiphany, it was more like a revelation...well it probably wasn't a revelation, more like a thought...yeah, a thought.

mtv is thirty years old.
big deal, right?
but the thought occured to me that the first song that was ever played on mtv was "video killed the radio star" by the buggles. (does anyone remember the second song that was aired on mtv?...me neither).

the fact that mtv debuted in 1981 is indicative of nothing other than it's a good halfway point.

when mtv signed on, rock was roughly 26 years old.

you could stretch that to 30 years old if you took into account big joe turner's "shake rattle and roll"...jackie brentson's "rocket 88" and big mama thornton's "hound dog"...all charted singles on the black rhythm and blues stations.

let's use 1955 as a demarcation point for the "birth of rock and roll"

now between 1955 and 1981 we had:
elvis, carl perkins, buddy holly, chuck berry, little richard, the phil spector stable of artists(the ronettes, the crystals, darlene love, the righteous brothers) the motown sound, bubblegum, the british invasion (including but not limited to) the beatles, the rolling stones, the who, the kinks, the yardbirds...bob dylan, the byrds, the doors, the grateful dead, janis w/ big brother and the holding company, the airplane, led zeppelin, black sabbath,jimi hendrix, cream, bruce springsteen, billy joel (you're welcome, work wife), pink floyd...and those are just the highlights.

since 1981 we've had what?
nirvana?
madonna?
the red hot chili peppers?

we've had a lot of crap, that's what we've had...and worse than that, we've had a lot of unoriginal crap.

i turned my radio off in 1981 and considering i worked in radio from 1984 through 1988, the only reason i would have tuned into my own show is that i played oldies (and in 84 i was just about the only dj that was)...oldies with the "boss jock" patois'.

video killed the radio star?
indeed it did.

and so my question is...what the hell has been recorded and released since 1981 that's worth a listen?

more importantly, what's been released since 1981 that's changed anyting?

so talk to me...you guys are an extended (and slightly dysfunctional) family of sorts...and i respect each and every one of your opinions (yes even tsiya, although he's into that hessian neo-classical music which i've never come to appreciate...i'm more of a mozart/beethoven guy)

what important music has been recorded and released since 1981?

where's mac when you need him?
auntmartymoo

I think this was worth a listen. Don't know that it changed anything...but maybe it revived something.

The Black Crowes
"Shake Your Moneymaker" &
"Southern Harmony and Musical Companion"

Edited to add:

These folks were also worth a listen:

Foreigner
Paul Simon
Tom Petty
Aerosmith
(old) REM
Blues Traveler
Oasis
scrutney

interesting...every band or musician you mentioned with the exception of oasis is american, with a very american sound.

amm, i have to agree with you on rem...old rem.
i just (last week) bought a deluxe edition of "murmur" which had a 1983 concert from small club in toronto.
it was so good that i ordered "reckoning" which also has a live disc.

rem lost me when they signed their major label debut, 'green' and released "stand" and "shiny happy people." and with the exception of "losing my religion", haven't (in my opinion) released anything worth listening to since.

paul simon, tom petty, aerosmith and foreigner really don't fit the category cuz they were minding their own business, making good music when mtv signed on the air.

by the way. i'm a big fan of petty, simon and garfunkel and pre ressurection aerosmith..('dream on' through 'toys in the attic').

a couple of points:
both tom petty and rem cited the byrds as major influences...and you can't get a more american sound than the byrds.

and aerosmith and the black crowes have been accused of being nothing more than a rehash of the stones but the stones borrowed most of their sound from american blues artists and were undeniably the most american group of the british invasion.
what goes around comes around, i guess.

i pretty much love everyone you mentioned...well i don't love blues traveler but i do like them...and oasis, i've heard of them but i can't recall having heard them.

edited to add:
i'm writing a lengthy comment in response to my above comment to clarify my drunken ramblings of last night.
stay tuned.


2nd edit:

rock and roll is about the most american of art forms..mac, were he still with us, would point out that jazz holds that place but seeing as both jazz and rock both took their cues from early american blues, they just took them in different directions, i think it's 6 of one and a half dozen of the other.

"it's one for the money, two for the show, three to get ready, now go cat go":rock and roll started in the early fifties as an off shoot of rhythm and blues, cleaned up and toned down for a white audience.

most of us are too young to remember the white versions of songs like tutti fruiti, ain't that a shame and long tall sally, by the likes of pat boone...but pat made a shit pot of money sanitizing the sound of black artists...so did bill haley and the comets...hell, shake rattle and roll by big joe turner is a song about shacking up with a...ahem...woman of questionable virtue but when bill haley got his hands on it, it was so squeeky clean as to be virtually unrecognizable.

rock wasn't anything new but after a steady post war diet of patti page, doris day and eddie fisher, american kids were ready for something different and something dangerous.

and they got it with the likes of elvis, carl perkins, little richard, screaming jay hawkins, jerry lee, chuck berry and buddy holly....new and different? maybe not, because these artists were working familiar ground, origianlly plowed by black rhythm and blues artists...but it was definitely dangerous.

and the lack of innovation in the early years almost planted the seeds of it's own destruction...early rock and roll peaked in the late fifties and started a downhill slide when elvis was drafted and buddy holly was killed in a plane crash...can anyone name a really great rock and roll song that was released between 1960 and 1963?

i'm sure there's a few but damned few worth mentioning.

dylan was doing something interesting but that something was folk music and that really doesn't fit in our discussion (yet).

and then the beatles took careful aim and kicked music in the ass.
oh, they weren't doing anything new...they just did it faster and with gorgeous harmonies...and they added some really cool twelve string guitars and tweaked the sound but they didn't create anything new (some critics would say that they never really created anything new but synthesized existing genres...to those critics i would say: peh.)

and their long hair and tight pants and amped up beat sound were undeniably dangerous.

but the real innovation was still several years away, say around 1966.

to be continued...and feel free to chime in at anytime.
auntmartymoo

Thanks for not ripping my suggestions apart, as so many expert music aficionados would have.

I almost didn't comment because I am such a amateur when it comes to music appreciation.  I really love music, but have really never made the time to broaden my horizons or research the whats, whys are wherefores.

Just to back up a smidge...I loved your original (cabernet-inspired) post.  And I agree that nothing can compare to the explosiveness of the 50s music scene...and its birth of rock n roll.

But was there anything worth listening to in the 80s and beyond?  Sure.  It may not have moved the earth, but there were a few playmakers.  And that's where I jotted down a few that I could remember in the wee hours of Sunday morning.

And I probably forgot a few...The Ramones come to mind...INXS.

scrutney wrote:
interesting...every band or musician you mentioned with the exception of oasis is american, with a very american sound.

amm, i have to agree with you on rem...old rem.
i just (last week) bought a deluxe edition of "murmur" which had a 1983 concert from small club in toronto.
it was so good that i ordered "reckoning" which also has a live disc.

rem lost me when they signed their major label debut, 'green' and released "stand" and "shiny happy people." and with the exception of "losing my religion", haven't (in my opinion) released anything worth listening to since.


Yes, old REM only.  I sorta grew up on them.  So unusual and truly "alternative" when they were a college band.  Haven't liked any of their albums since Life's Rich Pageant ("Superman" & "Fall on Me").  I probably listened to my cassettes (gawd!) of Murmur & Reckoning about 50 millions times back when I was a schoolgirl.  Radio Free Europe....Pretty Persuasion...Rockville...

I feel the same way about U2.  Truly unique in the beginning...then just same ole same ole.

scrutney wrote:
paul simon, tom petty, aerosmith and foreigner really don't fit the category cuz they were minding their own business, making good music when mtv signed on the air.

by the way. i'm a big fan of petty, simon and garfunkel and pre ressurection aerosmith..('dream on' through 'toys in the attic').

a couple of points:
both tom petty and rem cited the byrds as major influences...and you can't get a more american sound than the byrds.


Interesting.  Never really thought about it that way.  So, you're sayin' my picks are all distinctly American, but not very "original" otherwise? If so, I'd agree.

Paul Simon is great...with and without the beautiful voice of Garfunkel.

I've liked Tom Petty's music for as long as I can remember and you can probably credit MTV for that.  So much of the early videos on MTV were crap...I suppose because no one was making videos yet.  But amongst all that new wave junk there were a bunch of Tom Petty had videos out.  His videos weren't that great, but they made you hear his music.  His sound was unusual and familiar...all at the same time.

And there's another weird thing about Tom Petty...I've bumped into him 3 times in my adult life.  Different cities.  Not concert venues.  I dunno what it means...but it's a rather strange number of coincidences.  I just figure it means that I'm supposed to be a fan.  So I am.

scrutney wrote:
and aerosmith and the black crowes have been accused of being nothing more than a rehash of the stones but the stones borrowed most of their sound from american blues artists and were undeniably the most american group of the british invasion.
what goes around comes around, i guess.


Yeah, that's why I mentioned the Crowes as a band that wasn't a game changer...but rather a revival.  And a welcome one at that.

Foreigner has always been a comfortable favorite for me.  Just pop in Foreigner 4 and you'll know (and like) nearly everything on there.  (Hey, didn't they have a Brit or 2 in that woodpile?)

scrutney wrote:
i pretty much love everyone you mentioned...well i don't love blues traveler but i do like them...and oasis, i've heard of them but i can't recall having heard them.


My "like" turned to "love" when I heard Popper's harmonica version of the "Star Spangled Banner" at Jeb's inauguration.  And well, I also really love the song "Hook."

Oasis is Oasis.  "Wonderwall" rings my bell.  

As for the Brits and their sound...I'm sure there's more I could list from my ragin' days in the (punk wannabe) 1980s, but I just can't recall any groups that still speak to me after all these years.
bieramar

auntmartymoo wrote:
I loved your original (cabernet-inspired) post.


Life is a cabernet old chum, come to the cabernet. Come taste the wine, come hear the band, come blow your horn, start celebratin', come to the cabernet.

...followed with Peggy Lee's "Is that all there is, my friend...?"

The ecstasy and the agony - yin and yang - todo y nada - the meaning of life - 42 & 30.
auntmartymoo

Popped the cork a lil early today, friend...dincha?
puc reducks

With apologies to Scrutney because I simply do NOT have the depth and breadth of his musical knowledge.  Bolded stuff = my faves.  A little note to say that I agree with the character in "The Big Chill" who said, "There hasn't been any decent music recorded since after 1972."  Cool

1960

Singer/songwriter Jesse Belvin dies in a car crash following a concert in February. Two months later Eddie Cochran dies at 21 in a car crash while on tour in England with Gene Vincent.


The attempted mainstream watering down of rock continues with the birth of dance records, specifically the twist which has adults taking part as well as kids and becomes the most widespread dance craze since the Charleston ruled the 20's.


The Shirelles launch the girl group era with "Will You Love Me Tomorrow", which manages to get sex back into songs under the veil of innocence.  [Written by Carol King, right Scrut?]


Motown Records makes its first splash with "Shop Around" a #1 R&B hit by The Miracles.


Roy Orbison has his first major hit with "Only The Lonely" and helps to alter rock songwriting of the 60's to focus on more introspective issues.


The Ventures hit instrumental "Walk - Don't Run" leads to the creation of surf-rock which brings the electric guitar back into prominence.


Elvis Presley is discharged from the Army and immediately scores a series of hit singles and albums upon his return with a slightly less menacing, more mature persona.


1961  

Rock's second era begins in earnest with the debut of Del Shannon's "Runaway" which is the first pure unadorned and uptempo rocker to hit #1 on the Pop Charts in almost a year. The song also introduces the "musitron," an early form of the synthesizer. [Del ultimately committed suicide. Have always felt that loss.]


The Marvelettes "Please Mr. Postman" becomes the first #1 Pop hit released on a black owned and operated label - Motown.


A widespread revival of the mid-50's vocal group sound results in the re-appearance on the charts and airwaves of dozens of songs from 1954-1957 and the brief resurgence of similarly styled newer groups.


"Frat Rock" begins to show up with Gary "US" Bonds hit "Quarter To Three" with its emphasis on a frenzied atmosphere rather than on intricate production.


Soul music starts gaining a foothold with hits by Sam Cooke, James Brown, Solomon Burke and former Drifters lead signer Ben E. King, who's "Stand By Me" is a #1 R&B record.  {Bumper crop!]

Elvis Presley gives his last live performance for eight years.


1962  

Motown continues to expand its power-base scoring #1 R&B hits by both Mary Wells and the Contours and while attracting musical talent from all over Detroit that will soon result in the label becoming the biggest in the country.


Southern soul has its first major hit with the instrumental "Green Onions" by Booker T. & The MG's.

Ray Charles successfully melds country music with soul and crosses into the pop realm with the album "Modern Sounds In Country & Western Music".


The surf music craze, begun by instrumentalists in the previous few years, adds vocals when the Beach Boys score their first hit "Surfin' Safari". [Ick.]


Surf-rock guitarist Dick Dale debuts the new Fender Reverb amplifier.


The pacific-northwest becomes a hotbed for "garage bands" such as The Sonics, The Kingsmen and The Wailers which signals a more rebellious youthful aesthetic coming back to rock.


The Four Seasons greaser vocal harmonies explodes on the scene with three consecutive #1 hits in the waning months of the year.


50's legends Fats Domino, Clyde McPhatter, The Everly Brothers, LaVern Baker and Bo Diddley score their final major hits after a decade in the spotlight.[/b]

Marking drastic change from only a few years back female artists account for nearly half of all Number One R&B hits in the calendar year.


1963

Surf-rock lands dozens of guitar led instrumentals on the charts while the Beach Boys dominate the airwaves with a string of hit singles and three Top Ten albums in this year alone and are joined on the scene by Jan & Dean who notch the only surf rock #1 hit with "Surf City".


The Girl Group sound explodes as Phil Spector becomes the dominant producer in rock churning out hits by the Ronettes, Crystals and Darlene Love, while others such as Lesley Gore and The Chiffons top the charts as well.


Motown leads a revitalization of R&B with huge successes by Martha & The Vandellas, The Miracles, Mary Wells, Marvin Gaye and the first hit by the 12 year genius "Little" Stevie Wonder.

James Brown's album "Live At The Apollo" becomes the first LP by a pure R&B artist to hit the Top Five on the album charts and introduces the chitlin' circuit show and raw soul music to America.


Wolfman Jack begins broadcasting via a half million watt radio station, XERF out of Mexico. The powerful "border radio" stations are famous for their wild on-air activities and powerful broadcast signals that allow them to be heard across the entire North American continent, making Wolfman Jack the most famous rock 'n' roll DJ in the world.


Early records by a British group called the Beatles fail to make an impact in America when they are released by various companies who note the limited interest and decline to pick up their distribution option.
puc reducks

Peggy Lee???  "FEVER!"

Live, from the late 1960s... ALL Peggy, no voice mixing/whatever.

Stellar.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYxoAJ3Boyc
scrutney

the british invasion (or...this changes everything- the beatles and everyone else- part 1)

so these four cheeky little lads from liverpool get off a plane in new york in january of 1964...and do three songs on the sullivan show and all hell breaks loose on the home front.

but what songs they were:
'all my loving', 'till there was you' (from the music man) and 'she loves you' (better known as yeah, yeah, yeah)

2 rave ups and a mid tempo love song that changed the course of history as we know it.
and that's not an idle boast on my part.

america had within the past seventy five days lost a president to an assassin's bullet and within recent memory, emerged as the perceived victor in a high stakes (they don't come much higher) face to face staredown between kennedy and krushchev.

the time was ripe for a little light entertainment and the beatles fit the bill.

before they had even played a note on the sullivan show the press and the american people had fallen in love with the moptops and their subversive hair, their subversive shoes (cuban heels) their subversive edwardian suits and their wickedly subversive senses of humor.

at a press conference before the sullivan show a reporter asked the boys to play a tune.

"you'll have to pay us first." retorted john with a cherubic grin.

they smoked cigarettes, they drank alcohol, they wore tight pants, they cracked wise...america loved them...(that is, those that didn't hate them)...

but most importantly they played music the likes of which we hadn't heard before.

oh we'd heard the basic three chord progressions that most great rock and roll is based on... but the beatles took those three simple chords, added a back beat, amped 'em up and tossed in some flawless harmonies, and that little richard inspired "woooooooo" that paul mimicked so well...and voila.

instant magic.

and the girls loved them. more importantly the boys who loved the girls who loved the beatles were smart enough to know which side their bread was buttered on, so they loved them too....and started growing their hair and wearing beatle boots and tight pants.

and so ed sullivan (ever the pulse taker of the nation's entertainment needs) brought over the next big thing from across the pond.

the rolling stones (and as mangy looking a group of english thugs as had been seen on these shores, since the plymouth rock landing)
the girls swooned.
the girls screamed.
the parents sulked.
and mick...he pranced on the stage like a man afflicted with st. vitus dance, growling out lyrics to chicago gut bucket blues covers, while keith and brian mugged for the camera.

mom and dad thought they were as gay as a spring frock.

but the kids thought they were dangerous....and (have i said subversive yet?) subversive.

because they were.

and without the beatles to pave the way, america would have never accepted the stones.
and without the stones to pave the way america would have never accepted the animals...and the animals?...christ if the stones looked like a bunch of football hooligans, the animals looked like a police line-up on boxing day....with crab lice.
onstage the leering eric burdon looked like he'd like nothing better than to rape that co-ed in the front row.

something was definitely happening in music and it was happening on television, sunday nights, in front of the whole family...and of course damn near every a.m. radio station in the country.

yeah...the music changed in 1964...but it was about to change again.
and again.
and again.
puc reducks

My only story about The Beatles, whom I could live with or without:

We were in Junior year, high school, Sociology class. Everyday, an entire row of students would have to present, one at a time, "current events" to the class.

Second desk in my row was Donna B.  When Mr. Goodrow (one look would melt Lot's wife or freeze Medea) called on her, she replied, "I didn't do the assignment.

Gruffly, "What, Miss B?  WHY NOT?"

Donna, "THE BEATLES WERE ON ED SULLIVAN!"

Then she started to cry and put her head down on her desk.

Mr. Goodrow, "CONTROL YOURSELF!"

He rushed out of the room and came back with the Spanish teacher; had him by the sports coat sleeve.

"Miss B, repeat to Mr. DeBisschop why you did not do the assignment."

Donna, "THE BEATLES!!!"

More crying, hand flailing, the whole enchilada.

The two teachers stood there, staring aghast until DeBisschop left and Mr. Goodrow slammed the classroom door shut.

I exploded into laughter...  The kind like when you're in the library and find something hilarious and know you shouldn't, but trying to stop makes you laugh louder and harder.  It was the tension.

We heard that story over and over until June:  "Did anyone miss their assignment because of The Beatles?"
puc reducks

IMO, the BEST thing "The British Invasion" did was bring The Blues BACK to the USofA.
scrutney

amm... used to work at music matters (a local music emporium) and i remember when a 30ish lady came in and whispered in my ear "i'm really embarrassed to ask this but do you have any spice girls?"

and i thought 'why in the hell would anyone be embarassed about anything they want to listen to?'

hell's bells amm...i have stuff in my collection that, while i'm not exactly proud of, i proudly drag them out and play them when i've had too much to drink...

i think neil sedaka's "breakin' up is hard to do." is one of the most perfect pop singles of all time...i mean, lyrically it's bullshit...down doobie do down down, comma comma, down doobie do down down...but when the rubber meets the road I(or the needle meets the groove) it never fails to get me singing along and imitating neil's semi falsetto.
it's wonderful.
and don't get me started on tommy james and the shondells..."crimson and clover" just all out rocks...and it doesn't mean a damn thing.

rock music doesn't have to change the world, it just has to have a clever hook....and presto, three minutes of heaven on earth.

and speaking of hooks...remember "red rubber ball" by the cyrkle?
paul simon wrote it.
even one of those deep literary types like mr. simon wasn't above paying the bills and writing what phil spector called " little symphonies for the kids".

i love simon and garfunkel...which mostly consisted of paul writing and playing and art singing...i've always believed that paul was the brains of that outfit but by the time "bridge over troubled water" and all the singles from that album were beaten to death by a.m. radio...i had pretty much had my fill. i've never taken the time to listen to his solo stuff...other than the singles and they just didn't move me.

and as for mr. petty....george harrison, bob dylan and roy orbison liked him enough to invite him into the travelling wilburys...that's more than enough street cred for me.

and i'm with you on u2...i saw them on their breakthrough tour...hardest seats to get in 1982, handed to my ex-wife personally by bono or the edge or the crapper or someone in the band.

total pandemonium in the audience.
i was bored to my teeth.

puc...carole king did indeed write "will you still love me tomorrow." which i think partly mitigates the fact that she helped write "he hit me and it felt like a kiss" for the crystals.

i love phil spector's "wall of/revolving door of interchagable artists" sound of which the crystals were a big part...and unless i miss my guess he was a sonic force in the ben e. king "stand by me/spanish harlem" session...if memory serves both songs were knocked out in the same night.

contrary to my drunken comments of the other night, there were a few things going on between 1960-1963...and you pretty much nailed all of them...that's a sad commentary for a four year stretch.



puc reducks

Scrutney wrote:
think neil sedaka's "breakin' up is hard to do." is one of the most perfect pop singles of all time...i mean, lyrically it's bullshit...down doobie do down down, comma comma, down doobie do down down...but when the rubber meets the road I(or the needle meets the groove) it never fails to get me singing along and imitating neil's semi falsetto.
it's wonderful.

and don't get me started on tommy james and the shondells..."crimson and clover" just all out rocks...and it doesn't mean a damn thing.


Oh, gosh, ME TOO!

And, "I love, I love, I love my little calendar girl/Everyday, everyday of the year~" Neil Sedaka--still love to sing to his songs.

What about The Browns? "Going to the Chapel" sung in 3(?) part harmony?

I remember wailing melody for that one in Cibecue, AZ, w/about a dozen members of the White Mountain Apache Tribe and a bunch of archaeologists seated around a raging campfire and guzzling/passing around a couple litres of tequila. That part in "Chapel" at the end "...goin' to the chapel of love, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah..."--we all did the "yeahs" sotto voce--it was surreal. And we liked it so much we sang it about a dozen times!

One Apache (Alvin) called his mother and her sisters "The Supremes" just because, and that story launched us all on a trip to Motown. Alvin HAD to be Diana Ross. He sang falsetto and lemme tell ya, there is not much funnier than a barrel-chested Apache singing "I'll Be There" and "reach out for meeeeeeee..." in falsetto. Lots of peed jeans that night!

~~~~~

Tom Petty = Possibly Bob Dylan's greatest, certainly most generous, mistake. Cannot stomach Petty. Ugh.


Edited to fix typos. *sigh*
coebul

Wayne Newton Danke Schoen!!!!  Beats the crap out of "Coma coma down dubbie dubbie da what ever"!
puc reducks

coebul wrote:
Wayne Newton Danke Schoen!!!! Beats the crap out of "Coma coma down dubbie dubbie da what ever"!


In yer dreams, submarine boy!
coebul

puc reducks

Eeeeeew, SPIT!!!
jasmine

Ok, let's see, a guy with a submarine avatar posting a picture of a slimey toungue.  Freudian?
Phred

Gonna post this and will probably regret it ... LOL ... but, there is one music style that has produced changes in the good ol USA but hasn't been mentioned yet.

Disclaimer:  I, in no way, mean this to sound racist ... seriously.

Rap, Hip Hop, Gansta music and probably many names I can't remember.  

This "music" (and, yes, millions of black Americans do consider it music) has changed the way young Americans act and dress ... kinda like Elvis and the Beatles did for some of us.

Our parents hated that music and parents today hate the current stuff.  It doesn't matter what the color of your skin happens to be, if you're under 30 you're probably listening to it.

From the vulgarity of the lyrics to the degradation of women and intended threats to law enforcement officers everywhere, it's ugly stuff to most of us.

When did you ever hear of a 50's rocker getting shot due to the lifestyle created by his music?

But, know what?  I've never heard Patti Page's version of "Tennessee Waltz" blaring thru car windows from some 50,000 amp at full volume.
jasmine

Heard today on NPR that Hugh Laurie is singing the blues.  Heard a snippit on NPR today and he is really good.  I have seen him on House play and sing, but never realized he was this talented.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeyse...e-sings-the-blues?ft=1&f=1008
scrutney

phred wrote:
Rap, Hip Hop, Gansta music and probably many names I can't remember.


all three are different genres phred...but i think you and i would sum them all up with a word that started with a c and finished with a rap.

obviously it's not our cup of meat and some of it falls in the 'disrespect of the law and the subjegation of women' category but not all.

much of the lyrical content concerns the age old topics of love, sex and fast cars...or bling escalades accompanied by big boomy bass sounds and weird weeeeeee waaaaah noises.

i'm not the best guy with whom to discuss it...i can't stand it. i'm not sure i even classify it as music...i have a simple rule:
if you can't hum it, it ain't music.

but a lot of people like it.

Quote:
From the vulgarity of the lyrics to the degradation of women and intended threats to law enforcement officers everywhere, it's ugly stuff to most of us.

When did you ever hear of a 50's rocker getting shot due to the lifestyle created by his music?



i think the culture created the music and not the other way around.

i don't think that anyone smacked his bitch up and went out and shot up a rival gang member just because a song told him to...just as i'm doubtful that anyone back in the 80's commited suicide from repeated exposure to heavy metal music...or anyone parked their car on a set of train tracks after repeated listenings to j. frank wilson's "last kiss"

music is a reflection of culture and not the other way around, at least in my humble opinion...not that that matters to the victims in this sick (and getting sicker) culture in which we live.

it's the "chicken or the egg" thing and the music feeds the lifestyle that created the music that feeds the lifestyle.

okay...so i've just shot my whole argument (as yet unstated, but you were savvy enough to see where i was going with it) about the british invasion musicians changing the culture...shot it right in the foot.

gee thanks a lot, phred!
now you've got me arguing with myself.

i feel like the p.h.d. candidate, who's just read his thesis and realized that he's full of shit.

jasmine

Neil Sedaka's song "Having My Baby" was supposed to have influenced teenage girls to get pregnant.

Whew Scrut, you wear me out. Confused
scrutney

jasmine wrote:
Neil Sedaka's song "Having My Baby" was supposed to have influenced teenage girls to get pregnant.

Whew Scrut, you wear me out. Confused


and all that time i was trying to influence teeaged girls not to get pregnant.
at least not on my watch.

(and...not to pick a nit but i think that neil sedaka song was written by paul anka....hey it is a music thread.)
jasmine

scrutney wrote:
jasmine wrote:
Neil Sedaka's song "Having My Baby" was supposed to have influenced teenage girls to get pregnant.

Whew Scrut, you wear me out. Confused


and all that time i was trying to influence teeaged girls not to get pregnant.
at least not on my watch.

(and...not to pick a nit but i think that neil sedaka song was written by paul anka....hey it is a music thread.)


You are right, it was Paul Anka.  I should have done my homework.
scrutney

jasmine wrote:
scrutney wrote:
jasmine wrote:
Neil Sedaka's song "Having My Baby" was supposed to have influenced teenage girls to get pregnant.

Whew Scrut, you wear me out. Confused


and all that time i was trying to influence teeaged girls not to get pregnant.
at least not on my watch.

(and...not to pick a nit but i think that neil sedaka song was written by paul anka....hey it is a music thread.)


You are right, it was Paul Anka. I should have done my homework.


no big deal...i once got into it with skookum about music when he took exception to my statement that the grateful dead never had a top forty single.

he was right...in 1987 "touch of grey" went to number 10 on the hot one hundred...and number 1 on the mainstream rock charts.

what i should have said is that the grateful dead studio albums sucked after 1979 and left it at that.

at least i could have defended that statement.
jasmine

[size=18]Check out the new Google logo this month.  It is a tribute to Freddie Mercury's b'day, and for those of you who don't know who he is, he was the lead singer of Queen.  Google is coming up with some of the most unique logos.  Very creative.  This is in large type so Puc can read.    [/size]
auntmartymoo

scrutney wrote:
no big deal...i once got into it with skookum about music when he took exception to my statement that the grateful dead never had a top forty single.

Ugh.  I just don't like their music.  My husband loves it...plays the Grateful Dead channel on his satellite radio constantly.  And I really want to appreciate their music, but it just sounds like noise to me.  I guess I like Sugar Magnolia a little, but that's probably a desperate stretch.
scrutney

auntmartymoo wrote:
Ugh.  I just don't like their music.  My husband loves it...plays the Grateful Dead channel on his satellite radio constantly.  And I really want to appreciate their music, but it just sounds like noise to me.  I guess I like Sugar Magnolia a little, but that's probably a desperate stretch.


my former boss loves the dead...but only the dead recorded live and only from a certain period of time...like 76-86 or whatever.

he used to say; "scrut...their studio music is only a template for what they can do live...it's like a blueprint."

i always found their live stuff to be like poorly made chicken soup...kind of aimless and too full of noodles.

auntmartymoo...any band that you have to try that hard to like isn't worth the effort...there are exceptions to that rule, i had to try very hard to like bob dylan.

dylan's words were always there...and the musicianship on his albums was unquestionably great.

but that voice?

but dylan's voice was the perfect vehicle to sell his songs.

case in point: mr tambourine man.
in the hands of the byrds, it's a peppy little pop ditty with a chimey 12 string guitar musical "hook."

a great little tune...a flashback from the groove-yard of forgotten favorites.

in the hands of dylan it's a misty eyed masterpiece, with his world weary voice, growling out the verse the byrds neglected to include...the verse that sells the song:

Then take me disappearin' through the smoke rings of my mind
Down the foggy ruins of time, far past the frozen leaves
The haunted, frightened trees, out to the windy beach
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free
Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands
With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves
Let me forget about today until tomorrow.

the result is something more than a hit single.
simply put, it's art.
from weary damnation to passionate redemption in a single verse.

the grateful dead couldn't muster those lyrical chops on their best day.

i guess the point of this is that i always knew that dylan was worth the effort...that if i didn't get it on the first listen i'd catch it on the second...

or the fifth.

the dead is the dead...take it or leave it.
there may be hidden depths to their insturmental passages (performed live) or at least, so it is rumored...but if you can't find them on the 11-23-76 performance of "unbroken chain" recorded in santa monica...you won't find them in the dallas performance from the following year.

as with a seance, the dead either speak to you or they don't.
and all the trying in the world isn't going to help.
coebul

scrutney wrote:



my former boss loves the dead...but only the dead recorded live and only from a certain period of time...like 76-86 or whatever.

You were a, dare I say HUGE dead fan for years in your youth.

Not my tastes but to each their own.
scrutney

coebul wrote:
You were a, dare I say HUGE dead fan for years in your youth.

Not my tastes but to each their own.


i had some albums..."european tour" or "steal you face"...the one with the kid smooshing an ice cream cone into his head..."wake of the flood", "mars hotel" and "blues for allah"...long since snatched by my ex wife.

they were okay albums.

but i never was a huge dead head.

when i decided a few years back to buy a few on cd, i picked up the essentials; "workingman's dead, "american beauty", "skull and roses", "live dead" and "aoxomoxa".

like auntnartymoo...i tried like hell to "get it."
their charms elluded me.
forty years is one hell of a trial period...and if asked today whether i like the grateful dead, i'd probably give you the same answer that i would have at the tender age of 13:

"they're okay."
coebul

scrutney wrote:
coebul wrote:
You were a, dare I say HUGE dead fan for years in your youth.

Not my tastes but to each their own.


i had some albums..."european tour" or "steal you face"...the one with the kid smooshing an ice cream cone into his head..."wake of the flood", "mars hotel" and "blues for allah"...long since snatched by my ex wife.

they were okay albums.

but i never was a huge dead head.
Some albums? That ain't the way I remember it. You had them all at the time. I don't remember whether it was before, during or after your Bruce Springsteen years.
scrutney

coebul wrote:


Some albums? That ain't the way I remember it. You had them all at the time. I don't remember whether it was before, during or after your Bruce Springsteen years.


coe...i'm not going to argue with you about what albums were in my collection some 30 to 35 years ago.

you're incorrect.
memory is a slippery thing
bieramar

scrutney wrote:
to coebul: you're incorrect.
memory is a slippery thing


Can I quote you on that?  

I'm sure I'll be needing to write it again (and again, and again, and again).




[Or should I post this in "Friday Funnys"?]



===========================
you're incorrect. memory is a slippery thing
bieramar

Deleted double post.
coebul

There is no argument.  I wouldn't have called you a "Dead Head" you were at one time a serious fan of the Dead.
puc reducks

Here's the list of songs from the 1968 flick "The Strawberry Statement."    Anthems of the 1960s!

Movie only in Instant Video or VHS. Outrageous price.  Soundtrack. CD in the $100s.  Rare, but rreally?  

Hope y'all are well!


1 The Circle Game - Buffy Sainte-Marie


2 Market Basket (Theme From The Strawberry Statement) - Ian Freebairn-Smith & The MGM Studio Orchestra



3 Down by the River - Neil Young


4 Long Time Gone - Crosby, Stills and Nash


5 Cyclatron (Theme from The Strawberry Statement) - Ian Freebairn-Smith & The MGM Studio Orchestra


6 Something in the Air - Thunderclap Newman


7 Also Sprach Zarathustra (Thus Spake Zarathustra) - Karl Bohm Conducting The Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra


8 The Loner - Neil Young


9 Coit Tower (Theme from The Strawberry Statement) - Ian Freebairn & The MGM Studio Orchestra


10 Fishin' Blues - Red Mountain Jug Band


11 Concerto in D Minor - Ian Freebairn & The MGM Studio Orchestra


12 Helpless - Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young


13 Pocket Band (Theme from The Strawberry Statement) - Ian Freebairn-Smith & The MGM Studio Orchestra


14 Give Peace a Chance - The Cast
[/b]
jasmine

ALL GREAT TUNES PUC.  GLAD TO SEE YOU POSTING.  CROSBY STILLS NASH (AND YOUNG) ARE ONE OF MY FAVORITE GROUPS.   I PUT ON "WOODEN SHIPS" WHEN I WANT TO RELAX.  SUCH GREAT LYRICS.
puc reducks

jasmine wrote:
ALL GREAT TUNES PUC. GLAD TO SEE YOU POSTING. CROSBY STILLS NASH (AND YOUNG) ARE ONE OF MY FAVORITE GROUPS. I PUT ON "WOODEN SHIPS" WHEN I WANT TO RELAX. SUCH GREAT LYRICS.


That is one of my all-time fave albums!!!
scrutney

welcome back puc.

wooden ships (whether it be the csn version or jefferson airplane's) is one of my all time faves from back in the day.

paul kanter (uncredited) from jeffair helped steve stills write the lyrics and both versions were released more or less simultaneously...(hey, whats a couple of months after forty plus years?)

the post apocalypse never sounded so beautiful.
puc reducks

scrutney wrote:
welcome back puc.

wooden ships (whether it be the csn version or jefferson airplane's) is one of my all time faves from back in the day.

paul kanter (uncredited) from jeffair helped steve stills write the lyrics and both versions were released more or less simultaneously...(hey, whats a couple of months after forty plus years?)

the post apocalypse never sounded so beautiful.


Hi, Scrutney!  Just in for a visit, but hope/plan to be back by early Nov.!

There seems to be some really beautiful post-apocalyptic stuff out there, if you don't allow the early sci-fi or post-modern fiction get in the way.

Always thought of "Wooden Ships" as hopeful... for whoever was left.  They were sharing.  What a thought.  I wonder if one was Muslim?

I just KNEW ol' Steve couldn't have written that by hi'self.  Too much soul.

G'night, possums!  
jasmine

puc reducks wrote:
scrutney wrote:
welcome back puc.

wooden ships (whether it be the csn version or jefferson airplane's) is one of my all time faves from back in the day.

paul kanter (uncredited) from jeffair helped steve stills write the lyrics and both versions were released more or less simultaneously...(hey, whats a couple of months after forty plus years?)

the post apocalypse never sounded so beautiful.


Hi, Scrutney! Just in for a visit, but hope/plan to be back by early Nov.!

There seems to be some really beautiful post-apocalyptic stuff out there, if you don't allow the early sci-fi or post-modern fiction get in the way.

Always thought of "Wooden Ships" as hopeful... for whoever was left. They were sharing. What a thought. I wonder if one was Muslim?

I just KNEW ol' Steve couldn't have written that by hi'self. Too much soul.

G'night, possums!


Good night PUC, I finally got Sammy and Ruby up as an Avatar - what a pain and you can hardly see them.
puc reducks

Jas!  Oh, please take a close-up of them and re-do your avatar!  I thought your other WAS Ruby!  My bad.  
scrutney

every once in a while i post on another board...i know...it's hard to believe. (and by the way it's not the record board...)

vinyl engine is a very cool message board where record and turntable lovers get together and discuss (what else?) music and stereo equipment.

anyway a bunch of the guys got together last night and the bad puns flew like rotten produce.

hit the above link if you've got the stomach for it.
jasmine

Pretty good Scrut, corny, but good.
puc reducks

Oh, what a hoot! Thanks for posting the link!!!

Is this the first visit to Punville over there?
bieramar

Good stuff - as the scroll on my paternal family's crest reads "The Pun is the Lowest Form of Huber."





末末末末末末末末末末末末末末
"A pun is the lowest form of humor - if you didn't think of it first." ~ Oscar Levant
puc reducks

bieramar wrote:
Good stuff - as the scroll on my paternal family's crest reads "The Pun is the Lowest Form of Huber."

OK.  I'll bite: Just what IS the Huber family crest?

YES to Oscar Levant, one of my faves, drunk or sober (him, not moi!)  Laughing






末末末末末末末末末末末末末末
"A pun is the lowest form of humor - if you didn't think of it first." ~ Oscar Levant
bieramar

puc reducks wrote:
OK. I'll bite: Just what IS the Huber family crest?

YES to Oscar Levant, one of my faves, drunk or sober (him, not moi!)
Laughing


I was just using the "crest" as a literary device to get to my bad Huber/humor pun.  

All the various medieval Huber crests are "keeping up with the Jones" type creations by the Moravian, German and Swiss branches of the Hubers (Huebers, Huebners, Hoovers, et al); or by genealogical scammers.

The origin of the name goes back to one of the Greek "hubris" meanings, daring or challenging or dissing the gods, used often in Greek tragedies (the other meaning of "hubris" is derivative, i.e. the defiling of one human by another human).

Herodotus relates the stories of Darius in 513 BCE, and then his son Xerxes in 480 BCE, defying the Zoroastrian god Mazda's proscription of building a bridge to cross the Dardanelles (about a mile wide, and then called the Hellespont) from Asia to invade Europe - the first known world wide intercontinental wars.  

Then later in European history the major classes were the Christian and secular nobility, the townspeople who were taxed by them (including conscription to fight battles), the 'serfs' and farmers on contiguous lands who also owed allegience to the lords of the manors, the non-aligned to God or man residents in the woods and forests ('pagans' fm L. pagus = not of a city), and the resident tillers of parcels of land sufficient to raise their families away from the castles and cities, independent and not swearing allegience to the church and crown ('hubers' fm G. hubris = challenge the gods).

An "hube" was the size of the parcel needed to support a family, ranging from 80 to 200 acres.  In Britain a "hube" became a "hide" and after the Norman Conquest was standardized to 120 acres.

Levant was my idol, drunk or sober (him or me!).
scrutney

check out the link...one of my best friends from high school is the guy in the red hat trading, slide guitar riffs with the singer:
choo choo charlie mcginn

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