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Sarah Palin
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bieramar



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 4441
Location: Taylor Ranch, NM

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

coebul wrote:
McCain never had a chance at winning the election.  Talk about boring? McCain epitomizes boring.  

Palin, hate her/like her/love her/don't care either way, brought some zest to a dead campaign.  

And she did bring votes to the campaign.  My sister was going to vote for 0bama but turned when Palin joined the ticket.


And she drove away some votes - like mine.  

I would have voted for McCain vs. Obama, and on Plazabum.com (much to the chagrin of a few now departed members) posted several analyses of his pluses and minuses, including rationales to vote for him in spite of his age and dullness -- right up until the Palin pick.

The possibility that she could inherit the Presidency was far too great a risk to take.

That's the first time I began to look at Obama's history and campaign promises, as I had been a Clinton supporter during the Democratic nominating process.

And If the 2008 Election had been Clinton vs. Romney, I'd have voted for Clinton (contingent on their VP choices).
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coebul



Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 3285
Location: Northwest USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So instead we have 0bama.  Who in my opinion is with out question the worst president in the history of this country.   I would take Palin any day over this putz.  Knowing well that Congress would protect us from some of the more right wing whack stuff.  

0bama has sold his soul and this country down the river to the far left special interest groups.  He was bought and paid for in 2008 and will remain that way if re-elected.
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tsiya



Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 4017
Location: Cabbage Hammock

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama was born of Marxists, he never had to sell his soul to them, he is one of them.
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"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule."
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auntmartymoo



Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bieramar wrote:
I would have voted for McCain vs. Obama...

I remember you saying that several times after Palin became the pick...can't recall you saying it before she was the pick, but that's not really the point I wish to make.  

It's really hard to believe that you weren't on board with Obama from the beginning.  You come off as a really big fan of the guy on a very personal level.  You've mused that he reminds you of your Kenyan son-in-law.  And you've also made an emotional connection between your charitable work and what you believe was his charitable work.

Your feelings about Obama appear to be very sentimental...rather than logical.  Which makes them stand out since you really try to be logical in your approach to nearly everything else.  I'm not trying to be snarky here...I'm just wondering why this deep emotional connection happened later rather than sooner.

bieramar wrote:
The possibility that she could inherit the Presidency was far too great a risk to take.


Yes, the old guy with brain damage was a much smaller risk.
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bieramar



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 4441
Location: Taylor Ranch, NM

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

auntmartymoo wrote:
I'm just wondering why this deep emotional connection happened later rather than sooner.

<snip>

Yes, the old guy with brain damage was a much smaller risk.


The deep connection (from my perspective both emotional and logical) came later because I had no idea of Obama's early background and behaviour until I began looking after McCain picked Palin.

It was only then that I discovered our common backgrounds and influences - I was shoulder to shoulder on picket lines with Alinsky during the Chavez grape boycotts, an activist in the vertical slums in Chicago, an organizer with King's Poor Peoples Marches, and an anti-war counselor, and media speaker with the AFSC (Friends/Quakers). Only when I read the Obama campaign pledges, promises and propaganda did I move from a "lesser of evils" to a true Obama supporter.

I'm a "true believer" in most of the same ideals and goals that Obama espoused in the 2008 campaign, once I looked at them, and in most of what he continues to verbalize. That's based upon my analysis and research in post-WWII political and economic realities, not just idealistic or moralistic pollyannish "shoulds."

I'm disappointed in some of Obama's surrenders and retreats, but impressed that he has kept far more of his promises than he has reneged on.  I'm a realist and understand the co-optation that takes place at those levels of power, wealth and influence - among both the well-intentioned and ill-intentioned.

As to Biden, if he would have inherited the presidency (or does between now and January), he wouldn't have done any harm - thus I didn't fear that possibility. At the worst he'd have done nothing, at the best he would have been another Ford.
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scrutney
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Joined: 18 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I remember you saying that several times after Palin became the pick...can't recall you saying it before she was the pick, but that's not really the point I wish to make.  


over on plazabum, i made an off the cuff remark about bier being an obama supporter (this was months before palin) and he said he was leaning towards mccain but that he hadn't made up his mind.

not a ringing endorsement to be sure but it wasn't what i expected (which is probably the only reason i remember it)

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bieramar



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 4441
Location: Taylor Ranch, NM

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scrutney wrote:

over on plazabum, i made an off the cuff remark about bier being an obama supporter (this was months before palin) and he said he was leaning towards mccain but that he hadn't made up his mind.

not a ringing endorsement to be sure but it wasn't what i expected (which is probably the only reason i remember it)


At which time I think the Primaries were still going on - and as I previously noted, I was a Clinton fan -- if she didn't win the nomination then I was leaning to McCain.

As a generalized sweeping statement I will say that I think I've been categorized over and over again through the last decade+ on local forums.  

If I criticized a particular position, an assumption was often made that I therefore supported an opposing position, e.g., if I criticized Bush I'm therefore a Kerry, or Obama, supporter; if I supported a Kerry or Bush position, I was a Bush-hater; and when I supported or defended Bush (which I did on on a number of separate policy issues, e.g.  immigration, CAFTA, Iraq "surge," 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, his military service) my opinions and rationales were most often ignored (or at least not responded to, or commented upon).

I understand that many people are collectively partisan - and for whatever reasons group together partisan judgments and prejudgments into packages of opinions, i.e. if you hold a conservative position on this, you must hold a conservative position on that.

I don't - I'm a radical (from the Latin for "root") thinker, which simply means that I attempt to research and uncover everything on every issue to the roots of the data and the arguments.  

Sometimes my informed judgments are perceived as "conservative," sometimes as "liberal," sometimes unclassifiable (or nonsense, generating "bullshit" responses on occasion)- none of which adjectives mean anything to me.

And the process of my going to the roots of data and principles in every case also results in my opinions changing through the years, as new data is uncovered, and as false premises and logic is corrected.
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auntmartymoo



Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scrutney wrote:
over on plazabum, i made an off the cuff remark about bier being an obama supporter (this was months before palin) and he said he was leaning towards mccain but that he hadn't made up his mind.

not a ringing endorsement to be sure but it wasn't what i expected (which is probably the only reason i remember it)


Now that you mention it, I do recall such an exchange.  And just to clarify...I was not taking a shot at Bieramar with my comment.  I simply couldn't remember him ever being on board with McCain.  

Funny how he was the only one of us who ever was on board with McCain on purpose, rather than by default!

bieramar wrote:
...I'm a radical (from the Latin for "root") thinker, which simply means that I attempt to research and uncover everything on every issue to the roots of the data and the arguments.  

Just a couple of thoughts here...some things that probably apply to all of us...

Sometimes the way we perceive ourselves is miles and miles away from the way we are perceived.  

And sometimes our prejudices lead us to a conclusion first and THEN we research to justify our position.
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bieramar



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 4441
Location: Taylor Ranch, NM

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheney says picking Palin for VP was a mistake

July 29, 2012

WASHINGTON - Former Vice President Dick Cheney says it was a mistake for Republican Sen. John McCain to pick Sarah Palin as his vice presidential nominee.

Cheney says he liked Palin, but that she didn't pass the test of being ready to be president and that McCain's campaign didn't handle the vetting process well.

Republican challenger Mitt Romney is expected to announce a running mate in August. He is widely expected to choose someone perceived as competent but safe.

Cheney, whose own unpopularity was a flashpoint for the Bush administration, says there are two lists that candidates maintain. The bigger list includes politicians who want to be viewed as under consideration to boost their standing. Cheney says a second, much shorter list contains those who are actually being considered.
-
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07...picking-palin-for-vp-was-mistake/
===

I've never been satisfied with all the propositions attempting to explain why Cheney went to the dark side with Bush 43.  His political acumen was alway good, as illustrated in the above opinion about Palin.  He was one of the best ever Sec'ys of Defense during the First Iraq War, as well as the voice of reason in the  Bush 41 administration.

"How many additional dead Americans is Saddam worth? It's a quagmire if you go that far and try to take over Iraq" ~ Cheney, April 15, 1994

Video of CNN interview here: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/...e_untold_story_of_the_cheney.html
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tsiya



Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 4017
Location: Cabbage Hammock

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Picking McCain was the big mistake.


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"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule."
H. L. Mencken
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