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Romney Ryan 2012 - The Ticket and The Campaign
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bieramar



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:29 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

From Janet Novack to Mitt Romney
Sept. 17, 2012

Memo to Mitt - the 47% pay taxes too

A secret videotape of Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney talking at a private fundraising event earlier this year [Ed Note: aired tonight on CNN] could revive "in virulent form" the debate Texas Gov. Rick Perry started last year when he complained of "the injustice that nearly half of all Americans don't even pay any income tax."¯ The video, leaked to left-leaning Mother Jones  (excerpts and a report linked at URL at bottom of post), captures the normally cautious Romney  at his most candid and impolitic.

Here's part of what he had to say:
   
    "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what - These are people who pay no income tax"¯

Political suicide? I'll leave it to the pundits to analyze the impact Romney's comments will have on his election prospects.  (It should be noted, however, that while Romney does have an edge among high-income voters,  billionaire Warren Buffett is hardly the only rich guy supporting the Democratic  incumbent. See  Millionaire Towns For Obama linked at URL.)

But since I write about tax and budget issues, let me make a few serious points about the 46.4% of American households who paid no federal income taxes for 2011. [Ed Note: 51% estimated in 2012]  

First of all, according to the Tax Policy Center, more than 60% of those non-income tax paying households did pay federal payroll taxes - meaning Social Security and Medicare taxes. (Considering all Americans households, including those that owed income tax, 62% paid more in payroll taxes than in federal income taxes.)

What of the 18.1% of U.S. households that paid neither income nor payroll taxes?  More than half of them were headed by a senior - in other words, by someone who paid payroll taxes and likely some income taxes too, in the past.  (No, the amount the elderly have paid in does not cover the cost of the Medicare  benefits they are now getting. And that is true despite the fact that in a Romney TV ad attacking Obamacare's cuts to the growth in Medicare spending, an announcer seems to suggest otherwise, intoning:  "You paid into Medicare for years, every paycheck. So now the money you paid for your guaranteed healthcare Is going to a massive new government program that's not for you."¯)

Of course, it goes without saying, that those  folks who aren't paying federal taxes are almost all paying state and local taxes - state sales taxes, real estate taxes (either on their homes or built into their rents) and possibly state income taxes too, since those taxes tend to exempt fewer poor families than does the federal income tax.  If they buy gasoline, liquor or tobacco, or have telephones, they're also feeding the federal purse.

Yes, there's a serious tax policy issue here. The percentage of households owing federal individual income taxes has fallen in recent years in part because both Republicans and Democrats have looked to provide help for working families through the child credit, the earned income tax credit and other "tax expenditures," rather than through more direct spending programs.  That might not be the best way to do things. But note again that the largest group excluded from paying income tax because of special tax expenditures are seniors, who get a bigger standard deduction than younger folks and more importantly, special tax treatment for their Social Security benefits.  As I explain here [link at URL, below],  Tax Policy Center researchers calculate that 16.7 million elderly households will pay no tax in 2011 because of those two breaks and a special low income credit for the elderly.

By comparison, the earned income tax credit, the child credit and the child care credit combined keep only 11.5 million households with kids from paying income tax.

Not all of those escaping income taxes have modest incomes, however.  In 2009, according to Internal Revenue Service studies, six of the 400 U.S. tax filers with the highest adjusted gross income (meaning AGI of at least $77 million) paid no U.S. income tax, while 19,551 U.S.  households with income above $200,000 owed no U.S. or foreign  income tax.

So maybe a higher share of the American public should be paying at least some amount of federal income tax.  The tax code would be simpler, and probably fairer, if we reduced the number of tax expenditures for the wealthy and non-wealthy alike. We all might give more thought to spending restraint.  Then, too, we're all protected by the military and rely on public infrastructure  to get to our jobs, schools, stores and doctors - and yes, to build our businesses.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/janet...mitt-romney-the-47-pay-taxes-too/

===
Patronizing elitist! - Romney doesn't have a clue about ordinary Americans.

Including the two main voter bases who are in the 47% which he blatantly insults with "who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it."

Old white retirees and lower middle class white workers are two main bases of the GOP vote in the last several presidential elections - both groups which are in the 46.4% who didn't pay federal income taxes last year.

I'll bet the Online Betting Odds jump 10 points for Obama by the end of the week.
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bieramar



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How Jimmy Carter's Grandson Helped Leak the Secret Romney Fund-raiser Video

By  Joe Coscarelli

The damning video of Mitt Romney telling a room of wealthy donors how he really feels about the freeloading 47 percent of Americans "who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it," among other candid things, has been floating around online in bits and pieces for three months, but didn't hit the big time until it was published by David Corn at Mother Jones today.

Credited as a "research assistant" on the story is James Carter IV, the grandson of former President Jimmy Carter, who has been toiling online as an opposition researcher and is "currently looking for work," according to his Twitter bio. "I've been searching for clips on Republicans for a long time, almost every day," said Carter this evening. "I just do it for fun."

But by connecting Corn with the mysterious uploader of the clip, Carter has uncovered his biggest story yet, one that could potentially affect the outcome of the election. (And get him a job.)

Carter told Daily Intel that he first noticed a portion of the video in which Romney discusses using Chinese labor while working at Bain Capital. That clip, uploaded by a YouTube user named "RomneyExposed" in late May, and then again in late August by an account called "Rachel Maddow" that has since been deleted, eventually made it to Buzzfeed and Daily Kos.

Additional pieces of the tape were then added to a YouTube account called "Anne Onymous" starting three weeks ago. "There was a minor uproar about it on Twitter when I found [the first clip], so I kept doing research on it and that eventually led me to be able to narrow down who it originated from," said Carter.

Via Twitter, he contacted the person who claimed to have secretly taped and uploaded the video, and then sought to help publicize the remarks. "That seemed to be the purpose of [the filming] - to get it to a larger audience," Carter said.

Having worked with Corn before, Carter noted, "It was a natural fit." He put the anonymous video source in touch with the Mother Jones reporter and then butted out, knowing he was onto something. "Any time that you can find a clip that strengthens the narrative already established, that's what becomes a big deal," Carter explained. "I've been trying to get paid for this but it hasn't worked out yet. This might help."

Source:
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012...d-spread-secret-romney-video.html

===
And we're only half way through September!

When will the hacked tax records be posted on Twitter and/or Facebook?
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coebul



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bieramar wrote:
How Jimmy Carter's Grandson Helped Leak the Secret Romney Fund-raiser Video

By  Joe Coscarelli

The damning video of Mitt Romney telling a room of wealthy donors how he really feels about the freeloading 47 percent of Americans "who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it," among other candid things, has been floating around online in bits and pieces for three months, but didn't hit the big time until it was published by David Corn at Mother Jones today.

Credited as a "research assistant" on the story is James Carter IV, the grandson of former President Jimmy Carter, who has been toiling online as an opposition researcher and is "currently looking for work," according to his Twitter bio. "I've been searching for clips on Republicans for a long time, almost every day," said Carter this evening. "I just do it for fun."
Hmmmmm!  Key points in bold!

<snip>
bieramar wrote:
===
And we're only half way through September!

When will the hacked tax records be posted on Twitter and/or Facebook?
Possible, but I am betting there is more security on Romney's tax records than on Fort Knox.  

Having heard the Youtube video just this morning, I believe this is something Romney should have been saying all along.  This election has been boiled down to a classic "Atlas Shrugged" scenario.  Those who have and those who don't.  And who's got the better ideas on how to solve that single issue.  

I believe 0bama's ideology will not work for this country or the world...
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scrutney
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on the front page of today's e-edition of the washington post:

Romney fans wince at unforced errors

here's the link to the story which, to be honest, i haven't even read and probably won't.

question:
should a reasonably fair and balanced newspaper like the washington post, post this picture on page one of the e-edition?

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coebul



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't have to read it...  

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/...undraiser-video-will-hurt-so-much

1 min 7 sec. Long.  

It is true.  

He should have been making this point from the beginning..

Not really an error IMHO...
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bieramar



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scrutney wrote:
on the front page of today's e-edition of the washington post:



question:
should a reasonably fair and balanced newspaper like the washington post, post this picture on page one of the e-edition?


IF the photograph was taken contemporaneous with the news event covered in the accompanying article, YES.

HOWEVER if it is a file photo; especially if selected for an unflattering - or flattering - visage, NO.

That's SOP in my book, but I acknowledge the principle is is violated regularly, including attempts to bias the viewer/reader.

In this instance Romney hastily called a press conference in California last night specifically to address the Mother Jones article and video (which also was being broadcast on CNN). The photo is one of the thousands of still photos - or maybe a "frame" from the video - from that press conference. As such his captured expression is definitely appropriate to the article about the media event. Publishing it is analogous to re-broadcasting an "open mike" gaffe.

=========
NB: I realize that bold and italic and underlined and size and color emphases are standard and effective methods of expressing or emphasizing a fact or opinion; and I utilize them regularly for the readers here.

But strangely - for reasons I don't understand, some incompatible cookie somewhere? - those posted in replies by others don't appear on my screen [a "myfreeforum.org" idiosycracy]. So IF someone wants me to notice an emphasis, UPPER CASE or 'quotes' or "quotes" are necessary.
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bieramar



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coebul wrote:
You don't have to read it...  

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/...undraiser-video-will-hurt-so-much

1 min 7 sec. Long.  

It is true.  

He should have been making this point from the beginning..

Not really an error IMHO...


Excerpt from the above link:
              --
1. The sheer breadth of his stereotyping. Romney said, essentially, that half of the electorate or even half of the American public (it's not exactly clear) just want more and more stuff from government and believe "they are victims" -- that they are, essentially, moochers, and that this is why they back Obama. It's unfair to the millions of Obama supporters who work hard in the private sector to earn salaries, and it's unfair to those who collect government benefits, who do not fit the easy Republican stereotype of lazy, entitled freeloaders. As David Brooks wrote today, "Who are these freeloaders? Is it the Iraq war veteran who goes to the V.A.? Is it the student getting a loan to go to college? Is it the retiree on Social Security or Medicare?"

2. Older voters. Romney needs them to win, and his and Ryan's plans for Medicare reform already have a significant number of seniors nervous. Now he's said something that can be construed as blasting millions of them for relying on benefits from Medicare to Social Security to a prescription drug benefit (the last of which was signed, let's remember, by a Republican President).

3. It reinforces the idea that Romney is saying one thing to the wealthy and another thing entirely to the general voter. In a year in which hundreds of millions of dollars, much of it untraceable, has flooded into the process, and in which the GOP has a candidate whose extreme wealth and secrecy about that wealth is, for at least some voters, a liability, that's seriously damaging.

4. Once upon a time, Mitt Romney had a plan to address "freeloaders": an individual mandate in health care. It was the very sensible idea he pushed as governor of Massachusetts, which he described in USA Today as encouraging "'free riders' to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass their medical costs on to others." This election, he has forgotten this understanding of health care reform, instead embracing the notion that the Affordable Care Act championed by Obama, which relies on this very mechanism, is a "government takeover." He's attacking freeloaders in one breath and essentially enabling their freeloading in the next.

5. The box he put himself in. Romney already spends a fair amount of his time reassuring people that, no, his 20% across-the-board income tax cut won't be reducing the burden on super-wealthy people like himself, despite lots of evidence to the contrary. Now he implicitly suggests that the 47% of Americans who don't pay federal income tax -- but, it must be noted, also pay payroll taxes, which are more regressive, and many other forms of tax -- should pay more. But he'd never, ever have the guts to suggest raising their income taxes. Given that he clearly believes many of those in the "bottom half" aren't pulling their weight, shouldn't he?

6. The base. All of this will only make Republican activists, many of whom agree with everything Romney said, angrier than ever at supposed media distortions, and more committed than ever to hunker down. That's no way to win over the swing voters the Republican nominee needs in the final month. 
         -- end excerpt --
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bieramar



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And one more thing.

Perry's and Romney's "47%" misrepresentation of taxation reality is the epitome of the class warfare initiated and waged by GOP politicians this year - and parroted over and over again by true believers who avoid facts and reality.

The reality is that not only did the workers within that 47% bracket instead paid a separate federal 15% tax (FICA), but also that the reasons those workers, and non-workers, e.g. retirees and investors, didn't have a net income tax liability is because they utilized their rights under the current federal tax code.  

That does NOT make them the "47 percent who are with [Obama], who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing.... These are people who pay no income tax"¯ as Romney stated.

Plus they all paid all the other federal excise and other federal taxes and fees.

The fact is that once the workers (28.3% who ARE paying 15% FICA, and who include U.S. military, BTW!) and the 10.3% of the old, blind, or low income retirees whose income is insufficient to result in a tax liability are subtracted from the 47%, there remain only 6.9% of U.S. taxpayers - earning $9.62 an hour or less! - who don't pay federal income tax!

Romney recently released his last year's federal income tax records, showing that he paid a net effective individual federal income tax of 14%.  Much has been blogged about that being below the lowest tax rate of 15% - but that is an apples to apricots comparison.  NO ONE pays the statutory tax rates on their gross income - EVERYONE deducts, takes credits, excludes, etc., computing a "net taxable" income, upon which the tax rate is applied.    

That becomes the "net effective tax" owed.  As noted, only 6.9% of the poorest under retirement age - those whose incomes average from 0 to  $9.62 an hour (40 hour week, 52 weeks a year) end up with a zero "net effective tax" and don't pay income taxes.

Only 7% of taxpayers pay a higher "net effective tax" than Romney's 14%.

The average effective federal income tax rate of the remaining 93% of the population who have a net tax liability is 11.06% BUT if if you exclude the millionaires who pay the highest rates, the average mainstream American taxpayer pays only 5% of their gross income to the IRS/Treasury (I paid 6.61% of mine in 2011).

In summary,
- the average mainstream American in the 53% who have a net federal income tax liability pay 5% of their gross income, while
- the average mainstream American worker in 28.3% of the 47% who do not have a net income tax liability - those persons Romney denigrates - DO PAY 15% of their income in FICA federal taxes.
- the average mainstream American retiree in the 10.3% of the 47% who do not have a net income tax liability have paid FICA and personal income taxes throughout their working lives.

That half the nation is sponging off the other half - the class warfare hate speech spewed by Romney - is pure and unadulterated hogwash!
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scrutney
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damned impromptu remarks.

it's never a good idea to be blind sided by your own words.
romney said what he said and should have the good sense to take ownership of it.
(and they say that obama isn't worth a shit without a teleprompter)

had the video been released, oh say 10 days before election day, i'm pretty sure it would have sounded the death knell for the romney campaign...as it stands, the video probably hasn't alienated the faithful and quite frankly may have picked up a few votes from the undecided who value plain speaking.

those gains will probably be offset by the undecided who were "shocked, shocked" that candidate romney would speak so plainly to a crowd of doners who coughed up fifty large to tear a pheasant with, and get the inside scoop from, the man they believe will be the next president of the united states.

if romney doubles down on the rhetoric from may, he might stand a chance. if he back peddles, he's toast.

we'll find out more as this interminable, obnoxious, annoying, ridiculous,  polarizing, divisive and increasingly stupid election grinds to it's inevitable conclusion.

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tsiya



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49071984




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